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Planning Application: 51-53 Canonbie Road
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penfold


Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #1
08-10-2011 12:50 PM

Just had notification through the door that the existing three bed house is to be demolished and replaced with 3-4 storey building containing 9 flats with balconies. As a near neighbour we have until 25th October to comment.
We will be very overlooked and provision for off street parking and refuse storage will be close to our back door so we have concerns. Grateful for views of those more experienced in these planning matters.
Application number DC/11/78485

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dbboy


Posts: 201
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #2
08-10-2011 08:30 PM

I am totally surprised that such a planning application has been submitted. It will result in the demolition of an individual character building.

Suggest you contact Tewkesbury Lodge Residents Association to involve them and seek their support. May also be useful to inform as many local neighbours as you can.

If it goes ahead, it will cause severe disruption to a lot of residents in both Canonbie and Netherby Roads with demolition cranes/lorries, cement and building delivery lorries.

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ladywotlunches


Posts: 147
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #3
08-10-2011 09:12 PM

The application is unbelievable. Full of outright lies in the design statement, and unrealistic proposals. I wouldn't be surprised if the developers or the architects haven't even visited the site.

And in the unlikely event that it gets built, who do they think is going to buy 1 & 2 bed flats, with little or no outside space? Obviously no research has been done into the demographics of the area either. Developers are based in upminster - they prob just saw ELL and thought there might be money to be made.

Finally, they got the property under false pretences. Told the previous owner, who had lived there over 50 years, that they were going to refurbish, not demolish. So, it might not be illegal, but nasty nonetheless.

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #4
09-10-2011 08:21 AM

Lewisham has a predisposition against balconies for the very reasons you describe- I suggest that you call the planning helpdesk and discuss with them. 9 flats sounds a little overdeveloped but I think there is precedent in Canonbie?

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dbboy


Posts: 201
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #5
09-10-2011 11:23 AM

The demolition of the current property would result in the loss of a individual character bungalow.

Although the council will inform immediate neighbours you may want to inform a wider number of residents so a strong response in opposition to the development is put to the council. The proposed development will cause inconvenience to residents in both Canonbie and Netherby roads with demolition / foundation digging equipment and lorries, building material, concrete lorry deliveries and workmen.

A part three and four storey building would be totally out of character in the road, although with the recently built flats with balconies further up and across the road may already have set a precedence.

When 40 - 42 Canonbie was converted from two houses into 11 flats, this caused 18 months of disruption to those in the vicinity. Since then the flats with the exception of two are rented. This results in an extremely transient population, an excess of cars with insufficient parking on the road, noise, population and general inconvenience. This ws also sold to a property developer.

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Cidered


Posts: 50
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #6
09-10-2011 01:33 PM

Don't you just love this sort of property developer.

Unbelievable is the word.

Would be good to know what practically can be done to stop this. The government is supposed to be anti-'garden grabbing' but this sort of thing is worse IMHO.

Have attached a picture of the house they plan to bulldoze - the planning application doesn't include one.



Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
   
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dbboy


Posts: 201
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #7
09-10-2011 05:17 PM

The following link shows the poposed building;

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/81153_1.pdf

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penfold


Posts: 15
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #8
09-10-2011 08:01 PM

Thanks all - will be speaking to neighbours and Tewkesbury Lodge Residents Association. Agree that to allow it to proceed would be a travesty.

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
09-10-2011 08:58 PM

Inconvenience etc caused by the act of lawful construction isnt a material planning concern unfortunately so you would need to focus on what is but you can ask for a method statement to be issued and agreed with the Council prior to construction as well as a traffic management proposal for the period of construction and seek agreement on how construction vehicles get access to the site. You need to make it clear to the developer that residents expect adherence to the Councils hours of noisy working. You could ask for a programme and ask for regular meetings with the community to review. This usually happens as a matter of course in larger developments but I don't see why it cant apply to smaller ones in areas of high residential density. Best of luck.

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Satchers


Posts: 262
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #10
09-10-2011 10:09 PM

If we focus on planning issues i.e. the proposed building and its context

- Over development
- Inappropriate scale relationship with surrounding and neighbouring buildings
- Poor design quality

etc

Anything else?

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152047


Posts: 134
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #11
10-10-2011 09:03 AM

It would be a mistake to expect any sympathy from Lewisham's planning department. They are a bunch of weary hacks who have probably already agreed the outline of this development in a behind the scenes meeting with the developer.

As housing targets are the only game in town the larger the number of units proposed the greater the chances of the development being approved.

They don't care. They don't listen. They don't change.

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ladywotlunches


Posts: 147
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #12
10-10-2011 12:28 PM

But surely Lewisham's housing targets must include affordable housing in schemes? In which case this application won't help them at all. It has bee deliberately pitched at 9 dwellings - the maximum number developers are allowed in one go without having to include an affordable/social housing element.

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mikeroof


Posts: 4
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #13
10-10-2011 04:34 PM

This is an absolutely huge proposed development that will wipe out a lot of our light (we are next door in 49 Canonbie Road, on the corner with Netherby Road), doubles the building footprint and at least doubles the volume of the house and will have a big visual impact on the whole area.  
We only have until the 25th October to lodge objections, and there are a number of older residents in the area (there is an old lady on the other side of the development who was so upset by the whole thing when we visited her on Saturday) so we need to mobilise quickly.

Many thanks

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #14
10-10-2011 05:50 PM

This is a real shame - my partner and I are currently half thinking about moving (within SE23) and I idly looked at this one and thought it would be an amazing fixer-upper if we had the money - and the inclination to live in a building site with a 9 month old baby...

we don't need more ruddy flats - we need more decent sized family homes with something bigger than a postage stamp sized garden.

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dbboy


Posts: 201
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #15
10-10-2011 06:36 PM

The proposed development

http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/81153_1.pdf

is so much higher than the surrounding properties, that not only will it totally look out of place, but more importantly will over look the rear gardens of (even number) houses at the top of Netherby road and at least down to 27 Canonboe road.

I am in total agreement with mikeroof and propose that neighbours need to come and work together to oppose the proposed re-development of a perfectly serviceable home.

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #16
10-10-2011 06:54 PM

Does building an 8-space car park in a back garden count as backland development or whatever it's called? Are there special rules for that?

Access to the car park is via Symons Court. Is that a public or private road? If private, what right of way would the owners have over it? Even if it's public, have the residents of Symons Court (14 units according to the plans) been notified of the planning application? They might have concerns about increased traffic along their 1-lane road.

I understand Lewisham are now requiring developers to achieve level 4 of the Code for Sustainable Homes. The Code covers various categories (eg energy efficiency; surface water run-off; ecological value of the site) and the proposal is given credits for achieving various elements, which are then translated into a level from 1-6. Level 4 is quite high and entails a lot more than just lots of insulation and energy efficient light bulbs etc. I don't know a lot about it and have only read up on it online, but it might be worth looking into and at least asking what level of the Code the development will need to achieve, and if they have produced a plan to do it.

For example, in relation to surface water run-off one of the requirements is: "Where there is an increase in impermeable area, ensure that the peak rate of run-off over the development lifetime, allowing for climate change, will be no greater for the developed site than it was for the pre-development site." If a large part of the garden is to be turned into a car park then the impermeable area will increase, unless they install permeable surfaces. Any mention of that in the plans? Plus the building's footprint will be larger, so that will also increase the impermeable area too. There's also a section on ecology, which may be relevant to the decreased size of the garden.

If anyone fancies wading through the Code's technical guide it can be found here: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/buildin...nicalguide

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ladywotlunches


Posts: 147
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #17
13-10-2011 02:01 PM

Turns out that Lewisham council forgot to send consultation letters to the whole of Sydmons Court - the private road that runs behind the proposed development, and the one that it proposes gaining access from for its car park.

We have notified them of their error, and they sent out letters yesterday to Sydmons court and some more residents on Netherby. But the list of consultees is by no means exhaustive, and so if you live nearby and feel you would be affected, please do go and object to the application online. Application number is DC/11/78485/X.

Here's some more info from the developer - some 'lovely' 3D views, ahem...
http://acolnet.lewisham.gov.uk/ACOLLATEDOCS/81153_5.pdf

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152047


Posts: 134
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #18
13-10-2011 10:05 PM

In the 3D renditions the facades of the adjoining buildings are deliberately left blank. The reason being that if you showed the architectural detailing on the existing properties the new build would stick out like a sore thumb in both style and scale.

However, I am afraid this kind of over dense stacked rabbit hutch development is just the latest in the long line of crass developments allowed/likely to be approved by Lewisham's planners.

The planners allowed the bunker like Manor development between Canobie Road and Fairlawn so this will be a shoe in.

If you want to know what might have been going on behind the scenes you can always submit a freedom of information request to Lewisham requesting details of all correspondence and meetings between the planners and the developers. Make sure that you word the request as widely as possible so that they can't withhold the fact that meetings might have taken place without minutes having been kept.

Incidentally, when you hear developers on the news complaining that they can't build enough social housing do you think this is the type of scheme they had in mind?

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dbboy


Posts: 201
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #19
13-10-2011 11:32 PM

As the proposed building is going to be so large and over look such a large area of Netherby and Canonbie Roads, shouldn't Lewisham Council have to inform every dwelling that it will over look?

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #20
14-10-2011 12:07 PM

Just loving the Range Rover in the last drawing. Forest Hill tractors!!

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