You're absolutely right that the deliveries discussion is speculative, but there will be no planning application for this, and hence Morrisons will never have to say anything that would give us the opportunity to scrutinise their plans. One day lorries will just start rocking up with deliveries.

Michael mentioned that due to the town centre being a conservation area, consent would be required for alterations to the shop frontage. Is this literally an application for the appearance of the shop front (and any other exterior works to the building), and once again we would have no details of how deliveries would be made?

As I've said before, my objection isn't with the principle at all; my concerns relate specifically to this particular issue. I haven't signed the petition as I really would like to find out what Morrisons say is their plan to service the store before launching any sort of objection.

I've signed the petition - the pro's have had long enough to explain how the shop could be safely serviced, and have failed to do so.

Of course I have no meaningful objection to the extended alcohol license, but this petition seems to be the only mechanism to air any supplementary concerns.
It is a bit like the Prime Minister's question time - no-one really cares what his engagements are for the day - but that's what he is asked about before the real follow-up question is posed.

That's a shame indeed. Who needs yet another supermarket local, particularly one plonk up against Sainsbury's? M&Co was great value - I shall miss it.

Does this apply to objections (which are, after all, "in connection" with the application)?

In reply to brencud's question, yes, a planning application for changing the shop front would only include information about the frontage. Deliveries, opening hours etc would not be relevant.

I agree that deliveries are likely to be problematic. Might it be worth approaching Morrisons to ask what their delivery plans are (eg how many deliveries per day; at what times; what size lorries)? Then we can actually judge whether we think their plans are feasible or not. Although there's no formal mechanism to object, at least we could start a dialogue with them to express any concerns we may have.

As we know, the shop is on a red route. According to the current Streetview images, this section of red route has red double lines that extend partly into Havelock Walk (up to No6 on the right hand side, and around the back of Santander's building on the left). According to TfL's website:

"Vehicles are not allowed to stop at any time on double red lines. They operate every day, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and do not require a time plate (sign)."

So delivery lorries won't be able to stop outside or in the entrance to Havelock Walk (unless they want to repeatedly receive penalty charges and the resulting ill-will from the local population).

The rest of Havelock Walk is a Controlled Parking Zone with hours of Mon-Fri 9am-5pm. What does that mean - is it permit holders only during those periods?

The restrictions at the loading bay outside Energie are (again according to Streetview):

No stopping Mon-Fri 7am-7pm
except between 10am-4pm for loading (maximum 20 minutes)

So there's scope for them to unload there. Which will mean, as someone has already pointed out, having to wheel the trolleys along that stretch of pavement dodging pedestrians and people waiting at the bus stop.

Does approaching Morrisons to ask about this seem like a good idea?

You could always speak to your MP, or Councillors.

I'll miss M & Co - you can get some nice stuff (all of it seems quite good quality) and some bargains if you look hard.

Like a lot of other people have said I don't see why Forest Hill town centre needs another supermarket.

Unfortunately the red route at the top of Havelock Walk is not policed at all (I'm not sure whether the Lewisham CPZ officer has the power to do anything about it). I've only ever noticed someone getting a ticket there once, despite seeing people stop there every day from my office window. People stopping to pick up pizzas seems to be the biggest problem, in addition to the regular delivery trucks and lorries (many of which are servicing the shops opposite the station and have back entrances off Havelock Walk). Cars parking illegally stop people from being able to turn around to get out, and lorries just block the street entirely.

Yes, anyone parking there should have a permit, although only recently have I noticed the CPZ moped chap checking number plates. Most people just park on the red lines and seem to get away with it.

So we've gone from your allegations about local traders being in cohorts to scupper the M Local alcohol licence to those on the anti side being puritans. That's an improvement of sorts I suppose?

I don't consider myself a puritan, more on the side of common sense.

The other two churches you mention are smaller in comparison to the Capitol. KICC have a huge congregation, up to 12,000 visit their main church in Walthamstow, which is soon moving to 'Prayer City' in Chatham on purpose built ground purchased from the local scouts.

True, the alcohol licence issue is probably not the main thrust of the objections, but that does not make them false.
They just have more meaning in context of the other concerns that can be expanded on in the petition.

This will enable the planning office to perhaps informally explore solutions to the main concerns. Well that is my intention anyway.

I don't remember doing this. Would you care to show us where?

It's not good to have empty shops and Forest Hill has improved greatly over the years - we used to have more pound/black sack shops. I still don't understand how many coffee shops can survive or so many nail bars. Does anyone know what's planned for the old Pedder's building now they've moved?

I haven't got any particularly strong feelings one way or the other on this but from the couple of times I went into M&Co, my recollection is that it was a pretty big unit so it's always going to be a unit that will attract the chains rather than the smaller independents.

The unit that now houses Canvas & Cream (who clearly did their homework before going in) went through several unsuccessful independent restaurant incarnations before C&C arrived and turned it into a success.

I'm sure an independent outfit of some description could survive but it needs to be really well thought out. I am equally ambivalent about the notion that every shop on the high streeet should be an independent - why? It is perfectly possible for both to co-exist. I don't want an Identikit high street anymore than anyone else but this idea that "national/multi-mational bad, independent good" is completely flawed. You need both for a high street to thrive.

Maybe a Morrisons will force the little shops to up their games...

Oh, and to those who say we don't need a decent wine retailer -I totally disagree (although the M&Co would be far too big I think).

If ever I want to pick up some wine or beer on the way home from work (I cycle) I stop in East Dulwich - as there is nowhere in Forest Hill that sells a decent selection of wine or beer (the beer selection in the offy I stop at in East Dulwich is far better than anything I can get in FH).

Or indeed how about a Lidl or an Aldi? I like Aldi's Toro Loco for £3.99.........

Just noticed this morning that the small shop between Sainsbury's and M&Co has gone 24 hours....

Yes, I noticed the new sign last weekend. I don't think they can sell alcohol overnight though.

I understand they will be serving alcohol 24 hours. Guess it's not unusual - the londis on lordship lane does.

Their alcohol sales licence is for 24 hours a day.

http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/bu...fault.aspx

"List of Current Licensed Premises"
Find the address then scroll across and hover over the little red mark to see the hours of the licence.

Wow, I note on that Licensing spreadsheet that Sainsbury's on London Road have a 24-hour off-license.

I never knew that!