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Changes to Waldenshaw Rd / Taymount Rise Junction
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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #1
23-06-2008 09:52 AM

I have just received the following from London Streets

Quote:
Transport for London (TfL) Street Management is committed to improving London's busiest Roads, the Red Routes, for pedestrians, cyclists, bus passengers, people with disabilities and all road users. We are working to maximise the efficiency of London's road network and maintain its good condition.

A road safety problem has been identified on the A205 London Road at the junctions with Waldenshaw Road and Taymount Rise. Proposals to address the problems have been drawn up and include:
  • Installing central road markings (hatching) on London Rd to deter overtaking;
  • Providing right turn 'pockets' for vehicles turning right into Waldenhaw Road and Taymount Rise;
  • Removing part of the Catford bound bus lane so that vehicles turning left into Waldenshaw Road do not make a late turn at the end of the bus lane;
  • Removing the bus stop just before Waldenshaw Road, to allow for a central traffic island to protect right turners into Waldenshaw Road and Taymount Rise.
A drawing of the proposed layout is attached


I'm not sure how widely London Streets have circulated this. Please get your comments back to joseph.bicheno@projectcentre.co.uk by Friday, 11 July. The new road markings are shown in black on the attached drawing; deletions are shown in red

Personally, I do not think they have the right solution yet. London Road is still wide enough at the junction with Taymount Rise for impatient drivers trying to sneak up the outside and hit people turning right out of Taymount Rise. Also, this does nothing to slow down traffic coming down the hill from the Horniman.



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michael


Posts: 3,199
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #2
23-06-2008 10:04 AM

Looks good to me. I'll be able to get to Sainsburys without going all the way to the pedestrian crossing. It will be easier to turn into Taymount Rise, and probably easier to get out. People turning into Waldenshaw will no longer block the traffic.

Will the loss of the bus stop inconvenience many people? For me this bus stop has always been useless as I had to walk back up or continue down to a crossing to get across the road.

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ForestGump


Posts: 202
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #3
23-06-2008 10:37 AM

Does this fit in with the extension of the Dartmouth Road controlled parking zone.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #4
23-06-2008 10:42 AM

Makes good sense to me too, if i am picturing it correctly.

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sue


Posts: 27
Joined: Nov 2005
Post: #5
23-06-2008 10:47 AM

Can I suggest to all Taymount Rise residents that we request a yellow box junction, or at the very least a "keep clear" section in the London Road at the foot of Taymount Rise. I find it impossible at times to turn right out of the road, or turn right into the road during the rush hours because of the traffic tailing across the foot of the road. I think this small change would help us all.

On a separate note, I've responded to the letter by e-mailing Joseph Bicheno as stated in the letter, but have had an automated reply to say he's out of the office until 8 August. Bearing in mind we have to get our replies in by 11 July, is this a crafty way of ensuring they don't have to take account of our opinions?

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,350
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #6
23-06-2008 12:53 PM

I oftn find it dangerous when vehicles suddenly turn left from the right hand lane.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #7
23-06-2008 02:19 PM

I am concerned about an increase in drivers going down Waldenshaw Road as a rat run and the small minority of drivers who use it as an excuse to see how quickly they can get down the road. I would like to see a 20 mph limit here. Not sure how much effect it will have as most motorists ignore the yellow box junction there already.

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foxe


Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #8
23-06-2008 03:39 PM

It's the only road you can use to get to Sainsbury's car park so it's inevitably a rat run of sorts. I blame the council for forcing us to use it instead of letting us use Davids Road which would be much quicker.

Traffic plans look quite good to me.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #9
23-06-2008 03:41 PM

True but the Sainsbury's users dont tend to bomb down the road. There is one bloke in a Mitsubishi Evo that tears down there every night, one night he and I are going to have a chat.

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foxe


Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #10
23-06-2008 03:42 PM

about his taste in cars?

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #11
23-06-2008 04:22 PM

Laugh

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #12
23-06-2008 05:07 PM

Sue Wrote:
On a separate note, I've responded to the letter by e-mailing Joseph Bicheno as stated in the letter, but have had an automated reply to say he's out of the office until 8 August. Bearing in mind we have to get our replies in by 11 July, is this a crafty way of ensuring they don't have to take account of our opinions?

I just spoke to his colleague and Joseph is on holiday until 8th July, not August. The 'road safety problem' they are trying to address is apparently one of left turners into Waldenshaw Road cutting up buses and nothing to do with pedestrians or walls getting knocked down, nor accidents involving people creating their own lane to turn right onto Honor Oak Road. I think they need to widen their brief.

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foxe


Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #13
23-06-2008 05:23 PM

Anything that gets rid of even part of a bus lane gets my vote.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #14
23-06-2008 05:43 PM

How about the turning into Honor Oak Road from London Road. Cannot see why no pedestrian crossing here. Very dangerous especially on Sundays when loads of people with children walking to Horniman's.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #15
23-06-2008 08:25 PM

Speaking of that junction London Rd/ HR Road... maybe even phasing the lights properly would be a good start. The switch from one to the other is far to fast, hence the number of collisions.

I do agree with that though, there should be a pedestrian facility somewhere. However I think the smaller crossing a few yards further back onto London Road is the chosen route that has been "given" by Lewisham or TfL.
Possibly the thinking on this one is to discourage pedestrians from walking up past the entrance/exit of the busy petrol station, which in itself is quite dangerous.

Inconvinient I would agree, but safe things usually are Sad

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davidl


Posts: 180
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #16
23-06-2008 09:04 PM

Quote:
The 'road safety problem' they are trying to address is apparently one of left turners into Waldenshaw Road cutting up buses


There's a couple of places on the South Circ round here where buses can get a good bit of speed up and at time the drivers don't seem to have any interest in yielding to people who want to turn left - just before Wastdale Road is another. Interesting that the powers that be have decided that the solution is to change the road layout rather than educate drivers (of either cars or buses).

Would be good if the opportunity could be seized (since they're spending the money anyway) to do something positive about the road layout - to improve the lot of pedestrians wanting to get across as well as the drivers turning perhaps by staging and slowing the traffic down, but overall moving it more quickly - am sure it's not all completely incompatible.

I agree with Snazy - without wishing to rehash the many previous arguments on this, the amount of faffing you have to do to walk from FH station to the Horniman safely is ridiculous, and the situation as you drive in the opposite direction is barely any better.

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #17
24-06-2008 08:41 PM

I use the bus stop opposite Taymount Rise, so I'll miss it.

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koza


Posts: 39
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #18
25-06-2008 11:22 AM

works for me, i think it's the right thing to do

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #19
31-07-2008 05:58 PM

Here are the results of TfL's consultation. The bus lane and bus stop are to go, the traffic island may be a pedestrian refuge and Taymount Rise is to get 'Keep Clear' painted on the road...

A205 LONDON ROAD - WALDENSHAW ROAD/TAYMOUNT RISE JUNCTION IMPROVEMENT
CONSULTATION SUMMARY
COMMENT RECEIVED
TfL RESPONSE
Object to the removal of the eastbound bus stop (8 comments)
The aim of this scheme is to reduce traffic accidents. In the 3 year period to the end of July 2007 there were 13 accidents involving personal injury including one with serious injury and steps must be taken to tackle this problem. Analysis of these accidents revealed that 9 out of the 13 accidents involved vehicles turning into or out of Waldenshaw Road/Taymount Rise. The proposed scheme seeks to address this situation by providing right turn lanes into both side roads, protecting turning vehicles with a traffic island and removing the conflict of left turning vehicles and those vehicles heading straight on in the bus lane. The proposed removal of the bus stop is necessary part of the scheme. The Designers have considered whether the bus stop could be relocated but unfortunately there are no suitable alternatives.
Request Keep Clear or Yellow Box markings on the A205 at the junction with Taymount Rise (5 comments)
It is agreed that the introduction of a "Keep Clear" marking at the junction will help drivers to enter and exit Taymount Rise when there is queuing on the A205. This will be included in the scheme.
Request retention of the eastbound bus lane.
The bus lane cannot be retained with the scheme in its current format. The intention is to remove this short section of bus lane to remove the conflict between vehicles turning left into Waldeshaw Road with those vehicles (mainly motor cyclists and pedal cyclists) who are travelling straight ahead in the bus lane on the A205.
Unclear on reasons for (or against) the introduction of the traffic island
The traffic island will prevent drivers from overtaking slow moving or turning vehicles on the A205 and will protect those drivers wishing to turn into or out of Waldenshaw Road and Taymount Rise.
Wants traffic island upgraded to a controlled pedestrian crossing.
No accidents involving pedestrians were recorded in the 3 year period examined. A controlled crossing would, therefore, be difficult to justify as part of this project particularly as there is a controlled crossing situated on the A205 just to the west of the scheme. However, the designers are considering whether the traffic island could be constructed as a pedestrian refuge which would allow people to cross the A205 in two stages.
Concerns about traffic being closer to residential property and the difficulties that will result for residents reversing out of their driveways
Although the removal of the bus lane will result in other traffic being closer to the residential properties this is outweighed by the benefits resulting from reducing vehicle speeds and accidents. For safety reasons, drivers should exit their properties in a forward gear.
Various concerns were raised about safety at junction of the A205 with Honor Oak Road and Manor Mount
Whilst outside the scope of this project, these safety concerns are noted

For your information, the removal of the eastbound bus lane situated to the west of Waldenshaw Road will require a Traffic Order. This Traffic Order will be advertised in the local papers and on site and people will have a further opportunity to make comments or object to the proposals during this formal consultation period.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #20
31-07-2008 06:03 PM

Good. I hate that bus stop. Unless the traffic's bad and I'm going to Sainsbury's.

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