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Forest Hill Station Subway
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jgdoherty


Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #41
27-10-2012 12:36 PM

An official (looking) LB Lewisham Planning Notice for the works at the subway has appeared outside the station although there is no corresponding Application that can be found on Alcolnet.

The Notice states that work will commence on 5 November (2012) and will have a duration of six months.

This is a substantial change from information last provided that promised commencement of works in mid to late October (2012) with a duration of only two months.

Obviously the Notice is insufficiently detailed to advise on for how long the subway will be closed in that six month period.

Does anyone know the details of this revised programme and can we be told ?

Is it to be the case that the Forest Hill is to be divided over Christmas or have arrangements been made with LOROL to permit the use of the pedestrian bridge on the station for non-passenger foot traffic?

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,411
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #42
29-10-2012 07:48 AM

Forest Hill will now have its own version of the Berlin Wall!

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #43
29-10-2012 10:08 AM

why on earth would you choose to traipse up and over the railway bridge when it would be far quicker to just walk around the South Circular?

It may be inconvenient but we've all been complaining for years about how awful the underpass looks - if it takes 6 months to get it looking good, I can live with that. Better 6 months to do the job properly than 2 to just paper over the cracks

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #44
29-10-2012 10:34 AM

Quicker to walk around the South Circular? I don't think so. I often use the footbridge in preference to the subway to get to the London-bound platform. It's just as quick as the subway, plus I get some exercise. No way does using the footbridge take longer that it would to walk down to Waldram Crescent, down that road, under the bridge and up the hill.

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michael


Posts: 3,252
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #45
29-10-2012 10:55 AM

The alternative route suggested on the poster on the subway is via the south circular, but it does add a few minutes to a walk round. Accessing the station will still be possible from either side but it does not look like crossing over the railway will be allowed via the two sets of ticket barriers.

Although the poster says it may be closed for six months this is a maximum expectation for the time taken to complete the work, and it is more likely to take 3 months. Previously the contractor have said that the underpass would remain open for the whole time work was happening (which always seemed unlikely), but I think there is still the possibility that they will keep it open when safe to do so, even while work is going on. But with the lighting being replaced and new roofing being put in place there are plenty of safety issues to consider.

A lot of this is speculation on my part as the council have not responded to any of my emails on the subject. But the most important thing is that the work will start very soon.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,411
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #46
29-10-2012 11:33 AM

I get the 185 bus to Forest Hill railway station now.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #47
29-10-2012 12:22 PM

Thank you for at least trying michael.

If my recollection is not faulty, we have been previously advised that Conway's have been appointed to do the work and LB Lewisham had spent time renegotiating costs and seeking a firm commitment on programme from them.

Not sure I see a co-relation between a good job and a longer time-span - at the end of the day the appointed contractor owns and manages their own programme and if previously the contractor said two (or two to three) months, it would help to understand some more of the detail.

A long closure of the subway is not an insignificant matter for the less mobile amongst us.

An extended closure over Christmas could also have a negative effect on many of the local initiatives that many people are working hard to deliver over that period.

This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 12:25 PM by jgdoherty.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,516
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #48
29-10-2012 12:31 PM

I have to agree with AMFM, there has been so much talk about improving it, and its quite clear its what everyone wants. But at the same time people want it done in a weekend.

I am sure we will all adapt our journey times to allow for the closure of it.

I look forwards to seeing what long term works can really do with that place. Can it really change the looks of it.

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AMFM


Posts: 306
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #49
29-10-2012 03:55 PM

JGD - depends on what you mean by less mobile - if you're talking wheelchair and buggy users, the "long" way round is the only option now anyway.

I also genuinely don't see the closure of the underpass as having a negative impact on various local initiatives. The wortks have to be done sometime - it is entirely possible that they will only take 2/3 months but perhaps they want to err on the side of caution and build in a contingency. After all, if they say 2 months without builiding in a contingency, we'd all be on here complaining about the overrun if it didn't complete on time...

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jgdoherty


Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #50
29-10-2012 05:59 PM

These are not the only options I have seen many buggy users helped on many occasions by others to get up and down stairs at both ends.

Furthermore, for those people forced to make their perambulations in a slow fashion, they will be significantly worse off in a closure that requires them to make a longer walk and deal with the gradients on the South Circular.

Is there a problem in asking for clarity on the revised programme and thereby seeking certainty that any required closure is kept to a minimum duration and therefore diminishing the impact on the disadvantaged users ?

Thinking this through, perhaps the issues raised here lead to a very serious question that asks why we do not address the issues provided for under the Equalities Act. This Act now requires that those protected by DDA legislation be further protected by pro-active consideration being given to not denying them equal access to all features and facilities that everyone else enjoys.

Certainly not during the course of the works and perhaps now also for any permanent redesign of the subway,

I cannot see that any reasonable person would not want to seek solutions to difficult issues at both of these levels even though no positive outcomes can ever be guaranteed.

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Erekose


Posts: 557
Joined: May 2010
Post: #51
29-10-2012 06:53 PM

Excellent news that it is to start after all this time. A little inconvenience for a few months is as nothing compared with the wait....

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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #52
30-10-2012 12:16 PM

The wider pavement on the PV side would easily allow a shallow ramp.
The Devonshire Rd end should have a lift as discussed before.
Remove part of the stairs to install it.

The grime and graffiti is a side issue.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,411
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #53
30-10-2012 12:54 PM

A chairlift at the Devonshire Road end might be a good alternative to a lift.

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michael


Posts: 3,252
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #54
30-10-2012 02:47 PM

I got a bit more information today that came from the council:

Quote:
The Traffic Order will take effect on 5th November and will permit F.M.Conway to close off the subway whilst they resurface the floor and erect the cladding panels to the ceiling and walls.

Conways have informed us that they will need 2 days in which to resurface the floor of the subway and one and a half weeks in which to complete the cladding. Therefore the subway is likely to be closed, in total, for no more than 2 weeks.

We will of course give advance notice to members of the public, of the days when the subway will actually be closed, when work begins on site.


So the subway is unlikely to be closed on 5th November, and we should hear more before it shuts for a few weeks (we all know that 2 weeks means at least a month), but not for the next six months.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #55
30-10-2012 07:36 PM

Very informative - and thank you michael.

Good news on the minimum impact - even if a contingency has to be added at least we are counting in days and thereby not weeks or months.

Have I missed a trick though - is there a published specification for finishes etc. or a scope of works that is relevant for the final scheme?

And why is a Traffic Order pertinent to the subway which is probably owned by Network Rail and operated under a TOC Agreement by LOROL as part of the station lease and is not a public highway or footpath ?

Have the parties even at this stage not worked out the ownership or rights of way issues over (should that be under ?) the subway ?

Someone should tell us.

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michael


Posts: 3,252
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #56
31-10-2012 08:48 AM

I don't know the exact legal position of the subway but I believe it is an established right of way. It is owned by National Rail but the cleaning and lighting is carried out by Lewisham Council. The renovation work has been commissioned and partially paid for by Lewisham Council (with the majority of the cost coming from the contribution from Berkeley Homes when building City Walk).

I assume that because it is a public right of way there was the need for a notice of closure under the Road Traffic Regulation Act, even though it is not owned by the council.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,516
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #57
06-11-2012 12:41 PM

Well the first signs of work have begun, and I wonder if people who wanted it remaining open for as long as possible would regret that now... As walking through a subway with a commercial pressure washer in use can get messy.

So here is a blur of what occurring today..



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poolsneighbour


Posts: 162
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #58
06-11-2012 01:11 PM

Soooo pleased to see its happening..finally! Thumbsup

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Snazy


Posts: 1,516
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #59
06-11-2012 02:07 PM

Me too, but lets not get TOO excited just yet, lets wait and see the end result.
I was happy when they started the replacing the street lighting program, and look where that got some of us lol.

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jgdoherty


Posts: 372
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #60
06-11-2012 08:00 PM

Snazy - your narrative says that the contractors are using pressure washers - and your picture shows no evidence of screens or any form of containment.

I have visited the site and there is evidence of areas of the walls having been stripped and there are paint flakes spread all over the subway floor.

This simply should not happen this way.

The contractor should have tested the paint before stripping to establish that there is no lead in it and/or any other dangerous material. A competent contractor would ensure his method statement would define how he will prevent material and contaminants from being released into the air and potentially poisoning the surrounding areas and people. It should also define how contaminated material would be safely removed in sealed containers to ensure that it is not left lying around - as clearly it is this evening.

I think this calls for an urgent email to Ian Ransome of LB Lewisham to ensure there is no repetition tomorrow.

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