Well Roz, we seem to be living in two totally different Se23's. I moved from Blackheath, having lived there for 13 years, looking for the Forest Hill that you speak of because I felt that Blackheath had lost that edge and had become the type of 'trendy' area that you speak of. I am a great fan of Forest Hill and have always felt that it has so much potential but if I am honest then I will say that there is a lot about Forest Hill that saddens me. My mother who is 73 visited me last year and got mugged and punched to the rear of the Co Op on Stanstead Road, the shop across the road from me was held up in August, on a regular basis people are seen to urinate inside the entrance of Havelock Walk, I spoke to someone just the other day who lives on Westbourne Drive who had had his car window smashed, I have seen shops open and shops close because they have no passing trade because in reality very few people actually shop in Forest Hill,one day last year I walked all over Forest Hill and photographed the shops, it depressed me to see that so many were boarded up and closed and of those that were left there were many that I would just not want to go into, also I dislike it when I walk down London Road and I see discarded chicken legs and boxes from the number of fried food outlets that we have, one person told me the other day that he actually had some of that chicken thrown at him as he cut his hedge...the thing is Roz I could go on and on and I am sure that a lot of people reading this could add their own stories of negative experiences that that they have had in Forest Hill, maybe these are things that don't bother you. So as a response to your suggestion that I believe that it's latte's and mocha's etc that define an area then let me tell you that it's not anywhere near as complex as that, in fact it's much more simple...I want to live in an area that's clean and safe, that's burgeoning and vibrant, a place that can retain a certain level of sophistication and where its residents treat it with respect, and where business's can operate without the constant fear of of having to close down. I spoke with the owner of one of our local restaurants the other day who said that he had come through such a bad time over the last two years but now , with these changes that you seem reluctant to see, he was feeling much more confident and much happier. Now, if that means having mocha selling coffee shops, or a butcher or a deli or a bakers or in this case a new building project to make this change in Forest Hill happen then I say bring it on because it will lead to a much better situation than the ghost town that Forest Hill was 5 years ago...lets not put hurdles in front of those who are prepared to take the steps that the rest of us struggle to take, the more that these people achieve will mean the more attractive Forest Hill is to other prospective residents and business's, unless that is you don't want anyone else to come to Forest Hill in case they are too trendy or forward thinking??? By the way, I was not aware that it was a prerequisite to have spent 20 years or more in your area before you start to care about it!