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Avoid Devonshire Road - Road Closed
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Foresthillbillie


Posts: 19
Joined: Nov 2010
Post: #1
19-07-2016 06:29 PM

Devonshire Road is closed at the junction with the south circular

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Devonish Forester


Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 2015
Post: #2
19-07-2016 11:11 PM

It's beautiful; very quiet. No rat-runners because Devonshire Rd is closed, and no trains coming through because of the 'sinkhole' at Forest Hill station.

This post was last modified: 19-07-2016 11:14 PM by Devonish Forester.

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Poppet2


Posts: 59
Joined: Oct 2013
Post: #3
22-07-2016 07:33 AM

Especially as no lorries are going through there and using it as a rat run from Forest hill to Honor oak park station.

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Erekose


Posts: 534
Joined: May 2010
Post: #4
22-07-2016 02:08 PM

Yes I expect all the lorries are now travelling along Honor Oak road - see below.

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annsquire66


Posts: 100
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #5
22-07-2016 10:50 PM

It appears to be open for the weekend at least- they don't seem to have finished yet though.

This post was last modified: 22-07-2016 10:50 PM by annsquire66.

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Poppet2


Posts: 59
Joined: Oct 2013
Post: #6
23-07-2016 07:41 AM

What were they doing, just re-surfacing the road, or making the junction smaller to prevent two cars lining up at the edge of the junction to turn left or right?

If that is the case it will be even more difficult getting out of Devonshire road. Have they seen the queue of traffic lining up Devonshire road the rush hour and the school run. Queuing goes as far back as Drakes court, near Ewelme road.

This post was last modified: 23-07-2016 07:46 AM by Poppet2.

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annsquire66


Posts: 100
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #7
23-07-2016 08:57 AM

If I recall correctly, the original consultation mentioned improving visibility for drivers leaving Devonshire Road after several collisions with cyclists. They are creating a raised table which should also help pedestrians crossing there.

I did raise your point about the impact of the changes, potentially only allowing one vehicle out at a time, but was assured it would not be the case. It will be interesting to see the reality once it's finished as I live very close to the junction.

It was nice living in a cul de sac for a few days Thumbup

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Poppet2


Posts: 59
Joined: Oct 2013
Post: #8
23-07-2016 07:30 PM

Devonshire road is totally unsuitable for large lorries, even more so now that parked cars either side are not allowed to park on the pavement. I wish it wasn't used as a rat run.

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Devonish Forester


Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 2015
Post: #9
23-07-2016 09:39 PM

annsquire66 wrote:

Quote:
If I recall correctly, the original consultation ........


Ann, was there a consultation? Please could you give more detail: who, when, where?

---------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
It was nice living in a cul de sac for a few days


Why shouldn't the closure be permanent? You live in a conservation area on a narrow unclassified residential road. I think of a conservation area as being a double-sided obligation: householders are obliged to maintain property according to particular rules: the Council is supposed to maintain an appropriate sympathetic environment. The section of Devonshire that is in the FH conservation area is absolutely unsuitable for the volume of traffic that comes through.

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annsquire66


Posts: 100
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #10
23-07-2016 10:27 PM

Based on my email exchange which I have largely copied below, consultation was done by Andrew Cassidy of Tfl surface transport department in June 2015. Letter with diagrams through the door I think.

Some of my comments were...


Quote:
The bollards on the central island are regularly damaged/wiped out by larger vehicles turning into Devonshire Road. A yellow hatched junction box on Waldram Crescent for vehicles turning into Devonshire Road would be a most welcome addition and improve visibility for turning traffic as well as avoiding gridlock.

...the statement in your letter that 'the footway widening will have no impact on vehicles' is perhaps a little naive. The widening work looks likely to reduce the capacity for two 'waiting' cars at the final point of the junction down to one. Therefore unless there is then going to be a left turn only instruction, any vehicle exiting Devonshire Road and turning right will halt the flow of traffic there until they are able to make their manoeuvre.

During normal/busy traffic periods, a poorly positioned car turning right at that junction can cause that wait to be lengthy and create a backlog of traffic extending some way up Devonshire Road, which is already a rat run.
Your proposals appear to make that a permanent state of affairs and I would be interested to see an impact study done by temporarily creating the proposed scenario for a few hours before it is made permanent.


And his reply was...

Quote:
Thank you for your comments on our proposal to make some changes at the Devonshire Road/Waldram Crescent junction. I have met with the Project Manager, Robert Hunter, who has reviewed the plans against your comments.

We are confident the minor change to the footways and the restoration of a pedestrian refuge island will have limited impact on the width of the roadway at the point where vehicles enter and exit Devonshire Road. As such, our view remains they will not make it more difficult for vehicles to exit and enter the road at the same time.

As a matter of course, junction changes are reviewed to ensure sufficient space remains for larger vehicles, like vans and garbage trucks, to pass through it, not just motor vehicles.

There are strict design rules for the use of yellow-hatching at junctions and it would not be an appropriate treatment for the Devonshire Road/Waldram Crescent junction. However, we will look at installing ‘Keep Clear’ road markings.

The Project Manager considered your suggestion to use some form of temporary arrangement to ‘model’ the changes and gauge the impact on traffic. His concern is that setting out cones to mark the new kerb line will change driver behaviour excessively. Cones indicate works or hazards and drivers will usually respond by becoming more cautious. As a result, the way they approach the junction and make their turns would not be same as if they were confronted by a physical change.

I’d like to reiterate that the plans for the junction were reviewed and there is no indication the walkway changes will unduly impact on the width of roadway available for vehicles entering and leaving Devonshire Road.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further concerns or questions.

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Devonish Forester


Posts: 62
Joined: Nov 2015
Post: #11
26-07-2016 04:32 PM

Thank you Ann, for the detailed info.

With regard to your suggestion:

Quote:
I would be interested to see an impact study done by temporarily creating the proposed scenario for a few hours before it is made permanent.


There seems to be a lack of trials and impact assessments generally. I have asked Lewisham for surveys and studies relating to earlier decisions in Forest Hill, but they tell me they haven't got anything at all.

I hope Lewisham is taking advantage of the Devonshire Road closures to assess closing the junction permanently, or introducing other measures to reduce the traffic.

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