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Junction of London Road and Honor Oak Road
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michael


Posts: 3,205
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #1
14-01-2014 02:58 PM

There is a consultation on changes to the junction at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/streets...r-oak-road

Quote:
We are proposing to undertake improvement works at the above junction. The proposal aims to benefit pedestrians through providing wider footways as well as slow vehicles down turning into Honor Oak Road. It also aims to improve access arrangements into and out of the petrol station immediately next to the junction.

The proposals are outlined in the summary below.

* Provision of a right turn pocket for vehicles turning into the petrol station.This will reduce the instances of waiting vehicles blocking the traffic flow westbound on A205 London Road.
* Building out of footways either side of Honor Oak Road. This will provide a wider footway for pedestrians as well as slowing down vehicles entering and exiting Honor Oak Road.
* Eastbound stop line on A205 London Road moved forward 4 metres. This together with advanced warning of the traffic signal ahead sign will give more visibility and warning to vehicles exiting the petrol station of the junction ahead.
* Widening of pedestrian refuges on both A205 London Road and Honor Oak Road. This will provide more space for pedestrians to wait whilst crossing the junction.
* New stop line for traffic exiting Park Hill to accompany the existing traffic signals.
* Provision of red anti-skid road surface to assist vehicles turning right from A205 London Road into Honor Oak Road.
* Upgraded signal equipment at the junction to increase visibility of the traffic signals to road users.


As well as completing the consultation it would be helpful to share your views on this thread.

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vipes


Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #2
14-01-2014 03:28 PM

About time this was taken seriously. The speed cars sweep into HOR is as lethal as ever. I raised it with our councillors 7 years ago: http://www.se23.com/forum-archive/messages/9/44.html

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ryananglem


Posts: 167
Joined: Apr 2009
Post: #3
14-01-2014 03:31 PM

This is very welcome. I used to commute this way every day on my bike and was one of the scariest junctions on that route. My wife was rear-ended by a car on her bike while waiting in the stop box there.

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daveherne


Posts: 212
Joined: Jul 2012
Post: #4
14-01-2014 05:11 PM

yes, some good changes proposed. i often drive that route and it is a pain for everyone, drivers and pedestrians alike.

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gbrownings


Posts: 94
Joined: Aug 2012
Post: #5
14-01-2014 06:02 PM

Much needed but, as ever, vital they get it right.

I have written to TfL several times since moving to FH a couple of years ago about the inherent dangers of this junction (living as I do close by). For various reasons it is one of the worst I have come across for road users (motorists and cyclists) going through the traffic lights on red - from all directions.

My initial concern was cars travelling west on the A205 seemingly failing to even notice there were traffic signals (possibly because they are quite close to the pedestrian crossing lights which might have been on green) and my being in several near misses with cars coming up the hill as I turned right out of Honor Oak Road.

It is also not uncommon to see cars turning left out of the garage completely failing to spot, or forgetting, that there are traffic lights as they sail merrily across on red.

The other issue I raised with TfL recently was the signalling timings of the lights at the junction.

At one time fewer than four vehicles were managing to get out of Honor Oak Road which I suspect increased the temptation for some to go through on red. One morning I needed to get the P4 bus and watched from the nearby bus stop as, at every single light sequence, at least one vehicle (and sometimes up to three) went through the red light.

TfL did acknowledge there was a problem with the light sequencing and said they had been adjusted but that priority would always be given to traffic on the south circular especially at peak hours (fair enough).

A spin off problem if the queue develops on Honor Oak Road is that it can back up as far as Manor Mount and beyond and, for some, this presents an irresistible temptation for people to ignore the No-Entry sign and race down what is a one-way street.

So while welcoming the proposed alterations at this junction I really hope they get the traffic light sequencing right and the changes make it less likely that people will feel the need to risk going through red lights.

This post was last modified: 14-01-2014 06:04 PM by gbrownings.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #6
14-01-2014 08:13 PM

Some pedestrian lights to get across Honor Oak Rd would be handy.
It is the main route to Hornimans after all.
I will not hold my breath.

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Erekose


Posts: 543
Joined: May 2010
Post: #7
14-01-2014 09:05 PM

Seems to me that the proximity of the two sets of lights makes this junction worse (as happens outside of Hogworts as you drop into Catford). I don't see why the junction lights and the crossing couldn't' be combined to give a better outcome for pedestrians and drivers.

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Loncdl


Posts: 55
Joined: May 2008
Post: #8
15-01-2014 11:06 PM

Glad this is being looked at. As previous commenters have noted, the traffic lights on Honor Oak Rd which stay on green for about three seconds before going back to red are a nightmare, while the lights for the right hand turn from London Rd on to Honor Oak Rd are almost universally ignored - doubtless because they always seem to be on red, and seem to serve no purpose whatsoever when there is no one crossing Honor Oak Rd, and no one coming the other way down London Rd or traffic is stopped at the lights. Needs sorting out.

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rymerster


Posts: 72
Joined: Sep 2009
Post: #9
15-01-2014 11:40 PM

I'm glad this is being looked at. This junction is used by a lot of blind and partially sighted people who walk to and from supported housing just past the Horniman down to Forest Hill, not to mention all the school parties and everyone else.

I'd prefer a pelican crossing at Honor Oak Road to be honest; the biggest problem for me as a pedestrian is guessing which cars are turning into Honor Oak Road from London Road because about 50% fail to signal. I've had several near-misses. Getting across the other half is fine because of the lights, but for blind people there's no real way to know at that junction.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #10
16-01-2014 10:58 AM

+1 @rymerster

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michael


Posts: 3,205
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
04-04-2014 11:57 AM

Results of the consultation. TfL are sticking to their plans at this junction (good) and adding a 'keep clear' road marking to help flow out of Honor Oak Road.

Details can be viewed at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/streets...r-oak-road

Consultation summary at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/streets...ummary.pdf

TfL Wrote:
Respondents requested that we install a signalised pedestrian crossing across Honor Oak. Whilst praising the adjustments proposed, concerns were still given that fast vehicle movement and lack of sight lines meant that the crossing was still dangerous.
We have investigated installing a signalised crossing across Honor Oak Road. However doing so would mean traffic at the junction would need to completely stop to allow pedestrians to cross the width of Honor Oak Road. This would create significant delays & additional queuing on what is already a very busy junction, particularly at peak times of day. In order to limit the impacts of this the signal timings would need amending and consequently it is very likely pedestrians would need to wait for a significant amount of time before receiving a green man signal. At other junctions where this has happened it has been observed pedestrians rarely wait for the green man to appear and instead cross in between times.

We are however widening the pedestrian refuge island on Honor Oak Road to 2.4 metres – double the existing width. This should provide a more comfortable place to stand whilst waiting to cross the second half of the road. Additionally the carriageway is being narrowed at the junction. Vehicles will therefore need to slow down in order to turn into Honor Oak Road, providing greater visibility between pedestrians and vehicular traffic.

....
There were requests to install a yellow box at the junction to stop vehicles blocking the exit onto A205 from Honor Oak Road.
There are strict rules that must be met in order to install a yellow box on the carriageway. For these reasons it is unfortunately not possible to install a yellow box on the westbound carriageway of London Road. However we are proposing to install a ‘keep clear’ marking here to address concerns raised. This will be implemented in advance of other works at the junction.

This post was last modified: 04-04-2014 11:58 AM by michael.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,501
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #12
04-04-2014 12:44 PM

Looks positive.

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hertburs


Posts: 34
Joined: Sep 2013
Post: #13
04-04-2014 02:37 PM

In the meantime TFL, how about removing the severed lamppost half covered in yellow warning tape at this junction? The lamppost is still live if the tape is to be believed!

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christgill


Posts: 23
Joined: Mar 2014
Post: #14
08-04-2014 11:45 AM

Quote:
Posted by Loncdl - 15-01-2014 10:06 PM

...while the lights for the right hand turn from London Rd on to Honor Oak Rd are almost universally ignored - doubtless because they always seem to be on red, and seem to serve no purpose whatsoever when there is no one crossing Honor Oak Rd, and no one coming the other way down London Rd or traffic is stopped at the lights. Needs sorting out.


IS there a right-filter light for traffic turning from LR to HOR? I've driven/cycled through the junction daily for nearly 15 years, and I haven't spotted it! I couldn't see it on Google Street View either.

P.S. New lamp post going up now - hopefully old lamp post going too..

This post was last modified: 08-04-2014 11:46 AM by christgill.

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admin
Administrator

Posts: 387
Joined: Dec 2002
Post: #15
21-04-2014 11:08 AM

Alert from Transport for London this morning:

Quote:
A205 London Road j/w Honor Oak Road - The traffic signals are stuck. Traffic is queuing on the A205 in both directions. Expect some delays.

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michael


Posts: 3,205
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #16
16-10-2014 04:13 PM

TfL have confirmed that they plan to work on this junction in mid-January 2015 and work will last for up to 30 days (presumably mainly done at night).

Details of the changes can be seen at https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/streets...r-oak-road

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carole


Posts: 41
Joined: May 2009
Post: #17
17-10-2014 10:01 PM

Any chance of traffic lights (with a pedestrian crossing interval) at the junction of Honor Oak Road and Forest Hill Road?

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #18
18-10-2014 11:15 AM

The phasing of the lights is really bad again. Why does it seem to come and go?

But the last couple of weeks the traffic has regularly been backed up as far as Ewelme Road trying to get out. As a regular P4 user, this adds about 15 mins to my journey to work.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #19
18-10-2014 12:49 PM

Quote:
Any chance of traffic lights (with a pedestrian crossing interval) at the junction of Honor Oak Road and Forest Hill Road?

I'm sure tfl have investigated installing a signalised crossing here too.
But they have discovered that traffic would need to completely stop to allow pedestrians to cross and that is unacceptable to them.

The key problem is HO road is heavily used by through traffic and it was never designed for that. If it returned to just servicing local residential traffic, all the delays and difficulties crossing this road would go away.

They had the same problems just east of the south circ and installed barriers to divide the roads. Problem solved.

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gbrownings


Posts: 94
Joined: Aug 2012
Post: #20
18-10-2014 01:44 PM

"......But the last couple of weeks the traffic has regularly been backed up as far as Ewelme Road trying to get out...."

And thus some drivers wanting to turn left at the junction opt to race down the one-way Manor Mount.

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