Well said Roz!! It's completely unacceptable that there is no firm completion date for this work and blaming the contractor is not an excuse I want to here - where does the ultimate responsibility lie? Surely this work didnt start without a solid plan and budgets in place? How irresponsible would it be to embark on project albeit relatively small but with huge customer impact, without a realistic end date due to highly probable cost risks?

Personally I find it very difficult to get to Perry Vale when I travel from London to Forest Hill. There is no lift and having to struggle with 4 sets of stairs is no easy thing. Also I dont like to use the underpass at night.

As this project is slow and appears to be inefficiently run, I cannot understand why the gate at plaform 2 cannot now be opened. There are a lot of people who use Forest Hill station who need easy access to Perry Vale from platform 2. We also need commitment that the gate when completed (at some point in the distant future..??), will be open even if it is unmanned.

Can DSMDUNCAN please give us some further information and commitment regarding this? Thanks in advance.

Michael, thanks for your efforts but the station Manager at Forest Hill still hasnt opened this gate!!

Yes I agree especially as The Sydenham Gate seems to be open most of the time unpersonned.

"The side gate was manned by temporary staff from a seperate company who we have had to cut now due to the financial climate."

Duncan,

Just out of interest, which part of the 'financial climate' has affected the ability to ensure appropriate staffing?

Has there been a significant fall in passenger numbers, for example, resulting in decreased revenue? Or have the receipts from increased fare prices been somehow witheld?

I realise there is some economic disturbance right now - I just don't see the direct connection between that and the ability to provide reasonable access to the station.

Yes Foresters
I appreciate Duncan has a difficult job and it is not entirely negative . Many friends agree with me Southern are the best franchise company for some time and with them luck with their retention.

But why again is The Sydenham Gate left opened and unpersonned. It does imply that there are more criminals in SE23 than SE26 . Have you any evidence for this please.

Duncan
Please advise why the Sydenham Gate is open and not our gate at FH.

Brian, yes Sydenham does have a bridge, but you can get off at the down platform and walk round to the other via the street. This makes it possible. However it does take time and I would rather not have to do it. Also, just as people do not like the FH underpass, the street route to the up platform is not well lit and also a little scary after dark- which until recently was 4.30pm -5pmish. Just to break the monotony I travelled from London Bridge to Catford Bridge yesterday rather than have to travel via Sydenham; it took me an extra 50 minutes yes 50 as had to wait a long time for a 185 bus which did not already have its full quota of buggies aboard, and then there was a lot of traffic heading back up towards FH so the journey was slow.

In a world where there are so much emphasis on increasing accessibility for all, its a shame that things seemingly have to get so much worse for people before they get better.

I agree Roz, the emphasis is also on being greener, less use of cars and more use of public transport - with this fiasco, it is no surprise everyone choses to drive!

Roz
You have my sympathy. It is ridiculus that you feel you have to travel via Sydenham or Catford B , rather than to FH which I presume is your nearest station.
Will the new gates , even when installed and open , allow for buggies. I hope so. Even so quite a steep set of stairs.
Not sure what we can do but still waiting for a reply from Duncan ( who seems to have gone quiet after initial interest ) as why they feel they can leave the Sydenham gate open but not the FH one. This I think is a very important point.
I think Southern are honour bound to, open the gates until the instillation of the gates starts. How they staff the gate is their problem. There are a lot of unemployed in SE 23 whom I am sure would welcome the job.

The issue about how easy it would be to get a buggy through the gates is a good question- I trust that Southern will be factoring this in to the equation; I will have another look at the plans.

This doesn't answer the immidiate question about buggy access. But according to the East London Line extention map Forest Hill will have wheelchair access. I am assuming that means a lift? Unless I'm wrong.

All barriers have a wider entrance for buggies and luggage, just like the wide one in the main station. There will be one (eventually) on the Perry Vale exit according to their planning application. But you will still need to use the stairs and, by the looks of it, a locked gate!

I am told that the Perry Vale exit will be reopened on 16th March:

About bloody time!

Yes indeed.

In the meantime, spare a thought for those of us who live in properties adjoining the station, who are currently a quarter of the way into two weeks of disturbed sleep (the platforms have to have a few cm ground off them to allow for the new rolling stock, and this is not quiet work, alas). I'm on my third box of matches to prop my eyes open already.

My sympathy , lucky you do not live in Forest Hill Central.

The reason the Perry Vale exit is taking more than three months to refurbish is because the sub-contractors hired by Southern have not installed the barriers? This is beyond Southern's control and there's nothing they can do about other than point the finger of blame at someone else and wash their hands of the inconvenience to all commuters.

This has got me thinking...will we really get a better service once TFL take over the station and line?

At the moment, one service (trains to/from Forest Hill) is dependent on four independent companies

- Railtrack (responsible for tracks and signals)
- Train Leasing Company providing the carriages to Southern
- Meteor (company that provides temporary ticket inspectors/staff manning barriers)
- Southern (full time staff, train drivers, services)

When TFL take over we will have

- TFL (responsible for the station, service)
- Whatever Train Operating Company TFL has awarded the Overground contract to
- Leasing company providing new Overground rolling stock
- Company providing temporary staff/permanent staff

That's eight separate companies providing one service at a single station.

The temptation for one company to blame another is strong if something goes wrong or an unpopular change is pushed through or there is a change in business practice that might be beneficial to a company (but not to the commuter).

It's already happened. didn't Southern say that they were forced to install ticket barriers by TFL?

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but I'm not expecting a vast improvement in services. More like a commuters caught in the middle with companies passing the buck. I'd like to be proven wrong.


ps. Has anyone noticed how Southern treats the Metro and the six Metro bins with more respect and care than us commuters? I'll save that for another posting....

I hope Southern have sued the subcontractor for non performing contract.
Anyway good news the exit/entrance will be open from the 16th March.

I'm fully confident that we will get a better service when TfL takes over running local stations and new services come into operation.

Yes the number of service providers doesn't help. (although where you get 8 companies from Muss, is a puzzle to me - there will be 3 companies - Network Rail, TfL and the ToC). In the next 15 months passenger capacity will more than double, the number of trains will increase by 150% and we will have longer staffing hours, Oystercards and a better system to access the station. Plus 8 carriage trains to LB from September; 10-12 carriage trains by 2010. Plus the Victoria service extended to include the morning rush hour. All this can only have one effect - an improved service.

Let's wait until the autumn. I'm as cynical as the next person but real improvements are on their way.

The gate on platform 2 was open this evening! Woohoo!!

I've done a bit of research and TFL have awarded a 7 year franchise on the London Overground to LOROL - a newly formed company that's 50% owned by MTR (they run Hong Kong's metro) and 50% owned by Deutsche Bahn.

That's made me less cynical - they're good companies.

Their web-site http://www.lorol.co.uk/

They had a passenger group presentation from Oct 2008 with updates on the East London upgrade.

http://www.lorol.co.uk/upload/Passenger%...202008.pdf

Hopefully they'll have another powerpoint soon from their March 2009 presentation.

As for companies - I've revised my figure to six.

There will be two ToCs - LOROL & Southern
Two Leasing Companies - one for each above
- TFL (I'm expecting TFL to interfere with the ToCs)
- Railtrack

The train operators lease their stock as they can loose their franchise. If they did own and not lease the stock, then they would increase the number of carriages when they halve their service on a Sunday because of engineering works...instead of having eight carriages worth of people squeeze into four or less carriages every 30 minutes!

Good news on the firms who are going to be running the service in future. In the meantime, a slight change of topic (from the macro to the micro), but am I alone in my experience on dodgy tickets in FH?

The last few monthly train tickets I've bought at Forest Hill don't actually work in the turnstiles/ticket barriers at FH - they're fine at L Bridge/Cannon St/Charing X, but not in the station where I bought them. I put the first one down to an anomaly, but it's been consistent since (I complained this morning and was given a second ticket which didn't work).

Am gathering information before I send a mail to Southern in case I am sending them on a wild goose chase.