From what I heard at the planning committee from the representative of Southerrn Rail it is my understanding that the gates will be closed at around 8pm-9pm each evening until TfL take over running of the station. This will stop any use of this exit in the evening until September 2009. If they were not going to be installed until September 2009 I do not think we would have been told that the barriers would be locked at 9pm.

The safety concerns are real given the short distance between the steps and the barriers, with no line of sight from the steps to the barriers. This will mean that any hold up at the bottom will not be obvious to people coming down the stairs which could result in problems, especially in the poor lighting levels on the stairs (once again this evening only one of the lights was working at 7pm).

Nasaroc, If you believe that two barriers can clear people fast enough I would recommend you take a look at the queues filmed at Sydenham back in July. Fortunately for the people of Sydenham they can queue on flat ground - like people in every other station in the country.

I am not against ticket barriers, I use them every day. But I am against a layout that could compromise the safety of rail users in Forest Hill. There are a number of methods to prevent problems at the barriers as I have suggested in my letter to Southern Railways:

If anybody knows of an overground or underground station with a layout of stairs and ticket barriers in such close proximity I would like to visit. Please let me know.

If the potential risk of overcrowding is because people might not be able to see a potential logjam because of line of sight/poor lighting then can't we just campaign to get more lights and one of those mirrors that lets you see round corners?

I sometimes use this exit outside of rush hour and at weekends to get to shops on Perry Vale. There are frequently some dodgy characters(no, not the staff), hanging around the top of the stairs when its quiet. and I am usually glad when I reach the bottom of the steps and can make a quick getaway. I would not like to be trapped on these stairs fumbling for my ticket in my bag with some of these people hanging around, especially not in the dark.

Even the barriers at the main station exit frequently do not work at all, or do not work fast enough to let people through without a jam so there is often a backlog and a crush as some bad tempered people push past and through. If this happens at the Perry Vale entrance it will be disastrous. Someone should remind them what happened at Hillsborough. There is a good reason for the continued staffing levels at Forest Hill even though the barriers are up and running ie you can't always rely on technology.

It would be a good idea I think to arrange an onsite meeting with Southern for them to talk /walk someone through their proposals and to perhaps arrange a mock up of the proposed barriers on site so that the problems can be looked at closely from all perspectives including ease of escape in an emergency, something I think Southern are required to factor in to their proposals.

PS- whats this car hire place indicated on the plans as being next to the station- is it new?

I'm not sure if these people are really dodgy or just local smokers trying to aviod smoking on Southern's platforms while waiting an extra 30 minutes due to cancelled trains.

PS - I'm not one of them.

Having looked back at the recent postings, I now fullly accept that I have been guilty of overstating my case. Having spent so many mornings in recent years at both FH and Sydenham stations handing our leaflets in support of "open" stations and improved local services perhaps the cold is now slowly seeping into my brain.

The key factors are clearly both to keep that side of the station open but just as importantly to ensure passenger safety and convenience. I think that the gating system will cope better than many think (there's one more barrier on the proposed gate than at Sydenham station by the way - which may help) but the key factor is clearly safety first.

I have emailed Michael separately to offer both my apologies and to offer help in any way that I can.

Barry Milton

Isn't that Forest Hill Cars, the taxi firm that is so often cited as parking on the pavement in the Perry Vale thread?

If the barrier people really think 50 people can get through a minute, would they be willing to have training days to show old folks and out-of-towners that they don't have to wait for the gates to shut back up before going through or genarally how they work.
My dad isn't a technophobe, and has used Oyster once or twice before, but last time he was under the impression that he could hover his card above the reader to get through rather than touch it. He was about to go and tell someone his card was broken until I told him he was doing it wrong

I got a response today from Southern:

None of the concerns about safety or lighting have been addressed.

Great timing Southern! Just as people start Christmas shopping and have to struggle home with more bags than usual they decide to close the Perry Vale entrance while they do the work on the new barriers. As usual no thought given to customers!

I've noticed that the hanging baskets of plastic flowers at FH have been updated with a seasonal theme: they now contain white and red poinsettias.

I appreciate the effort, but the Scrooge in me would have preferred that they spent the money repainting the yellow lines on all the steps rather than just the top and bottom ones.

Is it just me, or did anyone notice the horrid smell of ammonia at Forest Hill train station yesterday?

The 'Thaw Granules' (brand name) being used by staff to remove the ice was giving off a toxic smell, not only in the morning when the granules were first laid, but in the evening after being there all day. My boyfriend and I were overwhelmed by the smell as soon as the train doors opened in the evening, all the way over the bridge and until we were out of the station.

I have searched the net for anything about the product to see if it is infact toxic, but have come up with nothing. It is hard to imagine that it wouldn't be as it gives of such a stench?

Was anyone else offended/worried by this?

its not the granules its what ever they have used to clean the platform with prior to putting the granules down,a chemical reaction.

urea?

I noticed the smell and thought it was stronger than in the past. Reminds me of the smell of Copydex glue. Fortunately I wasn't waiting long on the platform.

There's a 57-page good practice guide by the Association of Train Operating Companies on using de-icing agents at stations (isn't the Internet a wonderful thing!). Zip to the last page and it says that Thaw Granules are urea-based and that they're substantially biodegradable but may cause damage to aquatic life - so presumably non-toxic to humans.

According to the distributor's website they're non corrosive, won't damage surfaces, vehicles or equipment and don't leave a white deposit on carpets.

They might smell awful but I don't think they're dangerous.

See this discussion from last year on the same topic.

Pretty unpleasant odour, but ought not do you any harm. The same smell was pretty strong at HOP last night. Seems to be worst when the granules are laid and then it rains.

Very interesting. Please PM me Michael about this.

Lots of lovely new bike racks at funny angles. Someone had a mishap.... or is it a modern art installation?

I must say that I cannot remember seeing anyone using a bike to get to the station or a bike chained up by the station.

Is there a demand for our latest bit of "modern art"?

I'd never seen a disabled person on a bus before there were spaces for them either. It's political correctness gone MAD!!!