So how did it go last night?

I missed yesterday because I was meeting some friends in the Soho for a drink. So I got back to Forest Hill at 9:00 pm.

The point of this post?--the Platform 2 gate was OPEN!

Was the 5:30 meeting successfull in any way then?

The gate's been open outside of hours quite a lot lately.

There were a few people there who put their point stridently. However, their main grief was the closure of the Perry Vale exit and the lack of disabled access.

I managed to raise the issue of delays and overcrowding due to insufficient gates and provided evidence that Forest Hill and Sydenham should each have four gates open in the main direction of flow.

Southern were obstructive in their feedback; they simply stated that their employees had instructions to open the gates if there was a Health and Safety issue, while refusing to acknowledge that there were a lack of gates. TfL said that each gate could handle 33 paper tickets per minute, and were willing to supply extra gates in as little a four weeks (but where would they be installed?)

Southern then said that their consultants had advised that planning would not be granted before December, so they could not have extra gates installed until February. The mayor said that planning would be expedited.

Jim Dowd was also there and pressed Southern to explain why the gates had to be put into operation now. Could they not be delayed until the whole line was gated? Southern spluttered an unintelligible reply.

The party then proceeded (by train) to Sydenham at about 1815

I'm no apologist for this action, and I'm dead against the closing of the gate on the Perry Vale side, but there is one apparent statistic that is harmful to our cause.

Apparently, since the gates were put into operation, ticket sales at Forest Hill have gone up 16% (presumably compared with similar weeks beforehand).

Of course this does not answer questions about disabled access, joined-up thinking, health and safety, etc. but it does make you wonder.

16% increase also does not mean they make extra profit after running costs, but it does seem to show that there has been a sizeable minority abusing the ease of access, and rather dampens our moral righteousness!

I was going to make a complaint about the number of times the gates failed to open correctly (I saw lots of people trying tickets and oyster cards that would not open the gate). I wonder, now, how many of them might be people not paying the correct fair?

Anyone here care to admit that they have been buying more tickets in the last few weeks?

I did hear today of the plan to make changes to the PV side of the station, inc changes to the exit, possibly including a new structure. I believe this to be the final decision on the new exit to FH station. It sounded to me like it would be something that would not only be open a few hours a day. But of course I could have grasped the wrong end of the stick.

All in all it sounds like the rail company have made a workable plan. Now just to find more info on it.

16% more tickets being sold which is good... but potentially 84% of people with tickets being delayed... so the majority still suffer. I'm curious as to whether overall volume has gone up or down - is there evidence of people going to HoP to avoid paying?

I've got no objection to buying tickets although I hate when no-one bothers to check them since then others (in that 16% no doubt have got away with it) but one reason that I'm longing for Oyster PAYG to come in is to make it easier to buy a single zone extension for my annual zone 1-2 travelcard. Currently, it's more expensive than the equivalant Tube zone would be and you have to queue to buy the thing since the machines can't sell them presumably so it's not abused by people who don't really have a Travelcard.

Given that people who really want to break the rules and not pay are likely to find some way of doing so, inconveniencing the many is just so frustrating. However, it's the same with most rules so we should be used to it!

I reject the idea that 1 in 8 people travelling on the trains were not paying for their ticket, I do not believe this to be an accurate reflection of the revenues or the nature of the good people of Forest Hill.

What I suspect is that there have been an increasing number of people needing to replace tickets that do not work on these barriers, although they have always worked at London Bridge. The ticket office is now open later in the evening, which may explain a certain increase in ticket sales when people are unable to buy tickets and get a permission to travel ticket.

I would like to see evidence that revenues have increased at Forest Hill Station in the last few weeks and I shall ask Southern Railways to provide such evidence.

Mmmmm....

We were given exactly the same statistic in Sydenham. They did admit, however, that the increased sales against the running costs of the gates barely broke even.

Probably a new wall to block the gate up.

Lets not be too negative about it eh

Im sure there was a sign outside the station this evening too. Didnt read it though, I was being dragged through the streets

While I hadn't heard the figures for Forest Hill, John Oliver (from Southern) claims that they are selling an extra 200 tickets a day on the Sydenham Town forum video. That represents an increase in sales of around 2% which seems far more realistic.

A 16% increase in total sales would require an extra 2010 tickets a day from Forest Hill. I'm sure we would all have notice the extra queues if that had been the case

Quite a big difference in the figures being quoted - is there a source for any of these that can be checked?

I do think there are people out there who have been buying a 1-2 Travelcard and rely on Southern's "open-gate" honesty policy and the fact that there were barriers only at L Bridge and at best sporadic checking at each station. But I also think that the extra revenue will become pure profit for Southern after the running costs of the gates are taken out (i.e. we won't see any further station improvements...)

My frustrations with the new systems are thus:

On arrival at night there are generally a few members of staff at the second exit, only one of them has a very slow machine to check oyster cards, i get delayed everyday for the sake of southern buying two more hand readers. Also, most days the inspectors do not even bother to check tickets as it gets busier, on several occasions they have taken far too long and in frustration I have walked straight past. What is the point of it all if they make no effort to check tickets??

Furthermore I fail to believe that the move is cost effective, there are at least 12 full time members of staff required to man both gates in the current shift pattern. Even at ?20k per annum for each that equates to ?240k. I do not believe for one second they make this extra in ticket sales over the year - including the cost of putting the gates in and maintaining them.

I agree.
I get the 18:05 from London Bridge every night and if you get that train you know how busy it is. Not once has my travelcard been checked. I don't even take it from my wallet anymore for fear of losing it in the mad crush at the gate. Great system southern!
As i said before it is just a matter of time before somone goes under or goes flying backawrds down the stairs.

I had a good few beers after work the other night and locking the motorbike up I got to London Bridge. Going through the barriers Oyster card in hand I was pounced on by two rather chubby underclothes revenue inspectors who told me I was "barging". Being a little under the influence I didnt quite get what they were on about initially. One then explained that they had seen me follow a passenger through the ticket barriers to avoid paying the fare. I waved my Oyster card at them and explained that I had infact used it. He took his hand scanner out and tried to scan my card, his hand scanner didnt work!!

Long story short after being told I would be arrested, charged, sent to Quantanemo etc etc I asked why I couldnt simply pay a single fare and be on my way and recoup the Oyster charge the next day.

You could actually see the lightbulb go on above their heads. ?2.90 later I wobbled off.

Laughable really.

Why not put these staff on the trains instead. They can not only throw of fare dodgers but also people who put shoes on seats and noisy i pods etc

Becuase they need to rove the trains with two of them for support and then two police for backup.

A 16% rise in ticket sales does not mean 1 in 8 of travellers were cheating. The majority of users don't buy tickets: they have season tickets.

Good point Steve, I would say it would have a marginal increase in the overall percentage, very few daily rail users would buy tickets on a daily basis.

I am all for having a better functioning station with people not getting away with fare dodging but they simply need to do it properly!! Not the half hearted way they have taken here! They need to extend the other entrance and insert barriers, they need a larger main station building to accomodate more barriers and space for people queuing for tickets.

All this costs money though so they would rather bodge the job and employ loads more staff to take the flack. tut tut Southern. (although they wash their hands soon enough, who thinks tfl will do a better job??...)