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Change Flow of Traffic On Devonshire Road
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Posts: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
Post: #1
05-02-2013 08:06 AM

I'd like to start a debate about changing the flow of traffic on the Honor Oak end of Devonshire Road.

Ever since the council started enforcing parking regulations by handing out fines to cars parked on the pavement, Devonshire Road is gridlocked every rush hour.

The front of our house is now a battleground, with heated arguments between frustrated drivers, fights and the continuous use of horns.

Personally I'd advocate blocking the road off, like Garthorne / Grierson, or changing the flow of traffic, making it a one-way system.

This will invariably get worse, with the arrival of a supermarket just round the corner.

We've already had one potentially fatal car crash, when someone lost control of a vehicle while turning on to Devonshire. Something has to be done to relieve the bottle neck.

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Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #2
05-02-2013 08:56 AM

Totally agreed.

Did anyone see the Mexican standoff this morning involving a Lewisham mobility bus, ambulance and queues of traffic stretched in both directions?

Yomster is right, there are serious safety concerns with this.

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Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #3
05-02-2013 09:42 AM

Collect evidence and provide it to Lewisham. There's a chance that they don't know how bad it is and the only way to be sure is to tell them.

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Posts: 205
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #4
05-02-2013 09:50 AM

I agree it's a nightmare. However blocking the road off or making it one way would cause extra pressure on Hengrave and Boveney Roads which are also subject to tight corners, extra parking and stand-offs.
Does this raise CPZ debate again?

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Posts: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
Post: #5
05-02-2013 10:11 AM

A CPZ will not make any difference. The cars belong to 'us' the people who live at the end of Devonshire. I've been a keen advocate of blocking off access from Honor Oak Road, or the junction of Boveney / Devonshire.

The CPZ will only heap an extra cost on people who actually live in the affected area, and will have little impact on the current situation.

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Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #6
05-02-2013 10:32 AM

The bigger roads and junctions (HOP/Stondon and HOR/London Road) struggle too so they wont want to force too much more through those. So blocking the road wont happen. A one-way might be worth considering as might something else that I'm sure would be unpopular locally...removing on-road parking on either one or both sides at pinch points.

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Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #7
05-02-2013 11:46 AM

The bigger roads are designed for the traffic, so don't agree that any extra is a bad thing.

Devonshire Road is not designed for it and large vehicles especially cause a problem in my view. An alternative idea is perhaps a width restriction - larger vehicles would have to take a different route and cars would need to slow down.

I do think that one way may be better though.

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Posts: 212
Joined: Jul 2012
Post: #8
05-02-2013 11:54 AM

Was a mess this morning. I was very late due to the crazy traffic. I can't understand though why apart from the roadworks I did not see anything but the lights were not changing very quickly at all at the junction of HOP and Stondon Park.

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Posts: 5
Joined: Jun 2011
Post: #9
05-02-2013 02:29 PM

That mobility bus always causes chaos! I don't envy the driver.

I agree that it's an issue - I've also had horns and swearing, to the point of near fisticuffs. However, I've thought about it quite a lot, and I'm not sure I'd want to change to one-way. I think that this would lead to the road becoming a real rat-run for commuters (either N>S or S>N depending on the outcome), and that average speeds would increase because cars know they don't need to look for cars coming the other way. I am happy to put up with a bit of beeping here and there if it means that most people steer clear of Devonshire because they know it's a roadblock! Any changes could have side effects.

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Posts: 15
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #10
05-02-2013 06:20 PM

I think the traffic situation was worsened this morning by the roadworks at the top of the hill, but agree that it is often a nightmare in the morning and also in the evening, when people cut down Hengrave and Boveny onto Devonshire to avoid the queues on Honor Oak Park.

A CPZ would imo make a difference. I've lost count of the number of times in the morning I see people parking up and then walking off to the station... If all these cars belong to 'us' then why is it that come 9pm in the evening there is no problem parking anywhere at the end of Devonshire? I know many people are against but I would be more than happy to pay the approx 35 pence per day for residents permit parking.

I'm not convinced a one way is the answer - maybe a weight or width restriction? Also I'm sure that one side of the parking could use the kerb (as round the corner on Honor Oak Park) as the pavements are quite wide.

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Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #11
05-02-2013 07:26 PM

How about the council officially allowing cars to park on the pavement, as they are in other places? Voila, no more tickets, wider road, no more congestion, problem solved.

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Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #12
05-02-2013 08:38 PM

Hi mrm1ag1,

Not sure a CPZ would help... I live on Devonshire and found the parking situation pretty tricky Sunday night just gone! I'm not sure what it is about Sundays and DR, but I always struggle to park at the HOP end after around 10pm. I haven't found it quite so bad at other times. I'm not sure why commuters would park here anyway - HOP is zone 3, but they could park closer to Brockley and be in much cheaper zone 2!

35p a day sounds fine when put like that, but given everything is getting squeezed at the moment and that we'd likely have to find that amount in a lump sum... its not such a great deal. Having lived on a couple of streets with CPZs in Wandsworth, it didn't really make any difference - the roads were always packed with permit cars - the problem is that there aren't enough houses with off-street parking and there's not much that can be done about that. I really oppose the idea of a CPZ.

I feel it a width restriction is also out of the question sadly. Not because it wouldn't work, but because of the mobility bus and could feasibly cause more problems as traffic slows to negotiate it.

A one-way at one end of the road would be frustrating, but could be the best solution, dissuading visitors from parking because they'll need to go around the houses (literally) to get there.

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Posts: 15
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #13
05-02-2013 11:30 PM

Hi hoptop - sorry I would beg to differ about the parking issues. I've lives at the honor oak end of DR for almost 5 years and regularly use my car everyday at various times for work. In my experience it is nigh on impossible to park at the hop end anytime between 8.30am and 5.30pm. I've had occasions when the nearest space has been up by dunoon road or hengrave. Certainly not ideal with a baby or when carrying shopping! It was lovely to get back at 10pm tonight and be able to park tight outside my house!

I guess it all comes down to perception but I am definitely of the opinion that it is commuters parking up during the day to use the overground.In fact last year my car was dented but the driver kindly left a note. He lived in sidcup and said he regularly drove up and parked in the area for the train

And yes I have also had issues on both saturdas and Sundays and can ounly assume it is people parking up to head into town for the day?

A one way at one end is an interesting idea but I'm not sure it would deter people from mparking as there are many side roads to cut through onto DR. It would be extremely frustrating too for local residents!

Got to say I agree with shzl400 about the kerb parking. The traffic was never an issue until this was enforced although I understand its not great for pedestrians with cars parked on the kerbs!

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Posts: 4
Joined: Nov 2012
Post: #14
06-02-2013 12:43 AM

Perception is part of the reason I think a CPZ won't work.

Living 300m down the road from HOP, I see the parking issue differently, so would oppose the idea of bringing in a CPZ which doesn't fix the problems I find (busy at evenings and Sunday nights), introduces extra costs and inconvenience for visitors. I've had a number of weekday deliveries and trades visit us over the 6 months and they've usually managed to find a spot within 5 houses distance without issue.

Whereas you see the problems during the day at the end of the road, but find parking in the evening easier and would be happy to pay for a CPZ to ease the situation.

Neither of our views are incorrect, but a CPZ won't fix what you experience without impacting what I experience.

The biggest problem is that introducing a CPZ merely moves the problem you get to somewhere else and doesn't take cars off the road. If the CPZ existed people would park where it wasn't enforced... There would still be people who drive in to commute from HOP, but instead of parking at the end of Devonshire, they'll move to Boveney, Hengrave, Dunoon, the other end of Devonshire or wherever the CPZ isn't. You'll also find residents and visitors looking to park in non-CPZ roads to save cash or avoid a warden, inconveniencing more local residents. So then other areas consider CPZs and suddenly everyone is paying to park.

Maybe the kerb parking is the best idea. Although, as you say, its not great for pedestrians... I'd love to hear other ideas. Be interesting to hear the council's response to the HOPRA survey too.

HOPRA CPZ survey

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Posts: 19
Joined: Jun 2010
Post: #15
06-02-2013 09:32 AM

The CPZ issue is being banded around as if it's the solution to everything! Most of the people who live at our end of DR take the train to work, our cars are parked for most of the working week.

I don't trust the Lewisham Council's interest in this particular scheme - if I were a conspiracy theorist, I'd suggest someone knew DR would eventually become a bottle neck, the moment they started penalising cars parked on the pavement...

This issue isn't about parking as such, it's about the flow of traffic and I go back to my initial suggestion - block off part of the road or make it a one-way street.

DR isn't a main road - Honor Oak Road is, even better the South Circular.

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Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #16
06-02-2013 10:23 AM

Spot on yomster!

This is about traffic congestion. Talk about CPZs is really conflating two different issues - I recall at least one separate thread for the parking problems.

I think that ForestJon makes a good point about a one way scheme making a more attractive rat run in one direction. Also, having lived at boths ends of DR, can testify that the road width is narrower at the ends. So, here is an idea - make both ends of DR No Entry. So in other words, one way going junctions with Boveney to Honor Oak Park and Woodcombe Crescent to Forest Hill end.

Ok, this would make it a pain when driving into the road. However, I think this would kill the rat run and put the through traffic back where it belongs. Surely, on balance an improvement?

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No Longer Registered

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #17
06-02-2013 01:45 PM

I am not too happy about the idea of a CPZ but I am resigned to the view that it is the only way to kill the commuter parking. Make the whole area between Honor Oak, the railway line, HOP and London Road CPZ and let's see what happens to the traffic flow before considering the need to make roads one way.

Incidentally, the bus comes down every weekday during term time and should have priority. If the woman driving the car had backed up straight away into Boveney there wouldn't have been a problem. I would have liked to have seen her trying to reverse a bus with special needs children round a corner into a main road during rush hour.

Instead she thought she should have priority and ended up causing gridlock.

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Posts: 624
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #18
06-02-2013 02:45 PM

The mobility bus was not trying to park, it was trying to drive South. The traffic coming the other way was trying to get to Honor Oak Park so was most unlikely to be either looking for, or vacating, a parking space at that time if the morning.

This is typical of the traffic flow referred to by the OP. Kindly please explain how a CPZ would assist with this.

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Posts: 18
Joined: Aug 2012
Post: #19
06-02-2013 09:28 PM

I live in the area discussed here. I would HATE to have a CPZ in the area. Having lived in Wandsworth where there pretty much isn't a single street where you can park for free, it didn't make parking any easier and was a nightmare for visitors, deliveries, tradespeople etc. It went up and up every year and the traffic wardens were like vultures slapping tickets on visitors cars the minute it ran out even if you were walking towards the car. So be careful what you wish for!

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Posts: 55
Joined: May 2008
Post: #20
06-02-2013 09:57 PM

I was stuck behind that Mexican stand off this morning. I eventually turned round, went up Hengrave and took the long route along Honor Oak Road... and it was still going on when I drove past Devonshire with the woman and the bus driver out of their vehicles and shouting at each other! Anyone know how it ended up...?

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