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Traffic calming for rat run on Devonshire Rd
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tripandfuschia


Posts: 68
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #1
08-04-2010 08:48 PM

What does anyone think of the following suggestions?or do they have any others to cut down on the traffic using Devonshire rd and Benson, Ewelme, Tyson, Dunoon as rat runs.
Block Devonshire rd where it joins the south circular so drivers cannot turn from Honor Oak rd and use it as a short cut to south cicular, and vice versa.
Block Devonshire rd where it joins Dunoon rd so drivers cannot use it as a shortcut from Honor Oak rd to Honor Oak Park and Vice versa.
This may then solve the parking on the pavement problem as residents of Devonshire rd would be less likely to have their cars damaged by cut through drivers so could park in the road
Only local residents would use Devonshire Rd and Ewelme, Benson Tyson and Dunoon and may be more likely to onbserve the 20 mph speed limit.
It may cause inconvenience for drivers who live in the area but on the plus side perhaps 90% of the through traffic passing their doors would be stopped making a more pleasant environment
It is a similar idea to what exists where Grierson Rd joins Honor Oak Park
Any ideas? objections? other suggestions? what does everyone think?

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rosa


Posts: 2
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #2
09-04-2010 06:19 AM

I have sympathy but the traffic is too slow on s205 anyway....

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Johnc


Posts: 138
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #3
09-04-2010 08:10 AM

You could make Devonshire one way (northbound?). At least as far as Tyson or Dunoon. That would certainly ease the parking issue.

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rosa


Posts: 2
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #4
09-04-2010 10:05 AM

This feels more appropriate to me...

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roz


Posts: 1,790
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #5
09-04-2010 10:19 AM

I have lots of suggestions as some of us tried to get the Council to do something about this years ago by removing the right turn from the sth circ into Devonshire as it causes a logjam and also blocks the rh lane of the south circ. Haven't got time to discuss today but will try and do so next week. If you have the time and energy to devote to a campaign then that would be excellent as you will probably have a lot of supporters!

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tripandfuschia


Posts: 68
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #6
09-04-2010 11:13 AM

Thanks for the one way suggestion and other contributions. My worry about a one way system is it speeds up the traffic, having just achieved a 20 mph zone. It seems illogical to me that cars park on the pavement, presumably so the road is then wide enough for through traffic to go fast and past each other at speed, while trying to slow down the traffic with a 20 mph zone.
I did write to the mayor before we knew the 20mph zone was proposed, about local traffic, speed, crossing on Honor Oak Park for one tree hill etc, bus stops without bus shelters and he describrd my letter as a 'dirge'. I sent copies of it to our MP who didn't reply, and I had a discussion with Simon Feakes while he was canvassing about a 20mph, only to be surprised a month later, once the consultation was out, that he gave an interview in the South London local papers saying the residents of Forest Hill did not want the 20mph ( without waiting for the positive result!)
It seems to me there is no political will to address such issues meaningfully.
My suggestion of the blocking of Devonshire Rd is just based on what I see at Grierson Rd, a rd parallel to the railway, as wide as Devonshire, and as potentially busy as Devonshire Rd (motorists could turn off Brockley Rise to miss out the traffic lights ect and Vice Versa), but which is not a rat run ( I'm talking about where it joins Honor Oak Park by The Old Bank Restaurant).
I'm no expert on solutions but I do think there is a problem.
Any other suggestions?

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #7
09-04-2010 03:41 PM

No, no, no, absolutely not and over my dead body. I did type a clear explanation of why it was quite different to Grierson , but then my laptop lost it all. The 20 mph zone and all the humps is bad enough. This is a step too far. If the issue is damage to parked cars at that end of Devonshire Road, then yellow lines would be the way to go (and not a CPZ either!).

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roz


Posts: 1,790
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #8
09-04-2010 05:33 PM

I think a suggestion would be for councillor candidates for each party to set out as part of their agendae what they would propose to further calm traffic in this area, and also for someone to hold a meeting to discuss it further with Lewisham traffic engineers. Darien Goodwin of LBL was involved in the meetings a few years ago and seemed positive but the whole thing lost momentum.

The issue is not just parked cars at the end of Devonshire Road, but the fact that so many vehicles use this as a rat run, which is a tad dangerous given that it is a major school walking route. Its a false premise as the cars then get logjammed on Devonshire so they have got to the south circ little faster than they would have done if theyd gone round the longer route. The issue is about respect for people and their neighbourhood and safety of children.

Like you, TF, I was incensed to read that no one wanted the 20mph zone in FH as so many of us had campaigned for years for this as a starting point. Fortunately the poll decided otherwise and we now have it. The next step is to get some means of enforcing it.

As I said, if you do have the time and energy to get a meeting organised I would be more than happy to attend and contribute.

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tripandfuschia


Posts: 68
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #9
10-04-2010 04:39 PM

Well I wish I could oblige Roz, but I think I'm probably moving out of the area soon. Its good to hear that others have tried before. I had the correspondence with the Mayor as described and the discussion with Alex Feakes before reading his wrong pre judgement and I just thought as its election time its worth airing the issue so any interested people can rasie it if they come across canvassers etc. I have enjoyed very much living here for five years but as far as the traffic calming/ crossing to one tree hill situation goes it sems like its a long long way behind most other parts of London. Perhaps others can take it on?

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #10
18-04-2010 11:47 AM

A quiet Devonshire Road would be great. I lived there from 85 to 08 and the road was plagued by rat runners.

Without totally shutting it of could ban right turns into from Waldran Park plus left turns at the same junction from DR .

Ideally shut it of alltogether and give it back to the residents

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sandy


Posts: 189
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #11
18-04-2010 11:57 AM

Do people who object to others rat running in their streets never do that elsewhere...?

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #12
18-04-2010 03:15 PM

No way. Like a good proportion of the honest burghers I so not possess a motor vehicle as travel much easier by public transport and by foot.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #13
19-04-2010 10:06 AM

Good point Sandy, and I would say a majority do, yes. I find it hard to believe that many would sit in a traffic jam, knowing there is an alternative available.

To me the term rat run does not apply to larger roads. Cutting through parks, housing estates, and alleys is rat running. Roads are for driving on. Simple fact really.

Church Rise gets not only used as a cut through but a pretty high speed one at that. And while its irritating, its also reality. There appears to have been a rather large crash at the bottom of the road over the past few days, which looks to have been very high speed too. Which was compounded by the traffic calming measures.

I hate to say it but its the parking on Devonshire that actually compounds the issue more than anything. Causing snarl ups etc.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #14
19-04-2010 12:06 PM

Parking on DR acts as traffic calming . I am sure if no parking many drivers would go a lot faster.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #15
19-04-2010 12:25 PM

Sadly its one of those issues that is not going to go away. A one way on road would be horrible for the residents. From my experience driving along that road I tend to find that the only time there is an issue is when there is a/ traffic caught up due to vehicles passing each other, or b/ a car turning right at the end of the road.

I kind of agree with the no right turns in or out of the road, that would help flow for sure. But would be a royal pain in the butt for people living in the affected sections of the road.

I hope something gets sorted for the affected residents of the road. Stopping station parkers would help with the parking issue.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #16
19-04-2010 12:57 PM

It is a width restriction at the south circular end of Devonshire road that is required. Something they could not do for Manor Mt/Davids Rd because of the ambulance station.

Narrow cars for a narrow road.

Sure it would remain a rat-run, but this should reduce the incidents of the road becoming impassable and parked cars being damaged.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #17
19-04-2010 01:04 PM

Im not sure the road is initially wide enough to have a width restriction in place. Certainly not one that would allow parking fair for residents, smooth flowing traffic and of course emergency vehicle access. With driveways etc taken into consideration I would think it would be a tough task.

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annsquire66


Posts: 100
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #18
19-04-2010 06:47 PM

The South Circular end (where I live) was closed off a couple of years ago whilst one of the utility companies did major works for a couple of weeks. Despite the detour to get out, living in a cul-de-sac was bliss! I would gladly see a no right turn implemented but doubt it will happen. Which is why as long as I live here I will never buy a 'decent' car.

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andrewr


Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #19
20-04-2010 10:21 AM

I'm Chairman of the Forest Hill Society Transport Committee. We are aware of the problems in Devonshire Road and have discussed possible solutions.

It is a difficult issue - generally we would not favour of blocking any road - this increases vehicle mileage, forces traffic onto other minor roads, and tends to be very inconvenient for residents of the road. Controlled parking is always very contentious. Blocking right turns might be helpful at the South Circular end but would be very inconvenient for residents wanting to leave the road at Honor Oak Park.

As previously pointed out, making the road one way might increase its attractiveness as a rat run and also vehicle speeds. The Council's traffic figures published for the 20mph zone proposals showed that 85% of vehicles travelling north on Devonshire Road were doing less than 22.8mph and 85% going south were below 24.8mph. If this study was done in accordance with DoT guidelines, the measurements would have been taken at the point assessed as the fastest point in the road, so generally vehicle speeds are likely to be slower than this. With these sorts of figures, it is very improbable that the Council would be persuaded to implement any further traffic calming measures.

Our conclusion was that residents of the road should have the major say in any proposals and if residents have a clear view of exactly what the problems are and what should be done about them, we would support them in getting a formal consultation undertaken. At the moment, opinions on what the problems are, and what should be done seem to be very mixed. Further debate in this forum would be helpful.

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tripandfuschia


Posts: 68
Joined: Apr 2010
Post: #20
21-04-2010 07:16 PM

I wonder if the average speeds are so low because at peak times the cars are sitting in traffic jams?

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