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Damage to cars on Davids Road
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tohellwithculture


Posts: 8
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #1
31-07-2011 08:49 AM

Recently my car was hit by a Sainsbury's lorry while it was parked on David's Road. The driver side wing mirror knocked off and there was damage to driver side body work. Thankfully a kind gentleman working on a local building site witnessed the collision and left us a note, including his contact details and the registration number of the lorry. The lorry driver did not leave a note.

We have submitted an insurance claim, but it is taking ages for Sainsbury's to accept liability. Pretty standard when it comes to claims against big organisations, apparently.

This is the third time my car has suffered fairly significant damage to its body work while parked on David's Road, but the first in which there has been a note left or a witness. A few days after the damage to my car, I noticed that another car parked opposite Pearcefield Avenue had suffered very similar (but worse) damage. Another Sainsbury's lorry "hit and run" I suspect.

There is a clear pattern of this happening, definitely to cars parked on David's Road and Pearcefield Avenue, possibly also on Manor Mount and Waldenshaw Road. I would like to raise this with Sainsbury's and it would be helpful to be able to list a few instances of cars that have been hit without the third party leaving a note. Is there anyone has suffered a similar incident and would like to share the details?

I would also be interested to hear if anyone has ever had their car damaged and received a note from a Sainsbury's lorry driver admitting liability? The car that I saw damaged on David's Road this week had really bad damage to its driver door - I can't believe that a driver could not notice that he had hit this car.

Personally, I am outraged that the lorry drivers, who must be aware that the access to FH Sainsbury's is tight, seem to hit parked cars so regularly and seemingly never leave notes to admit liability. I know insurance companies do all they can to discourage policy holders from ever actually using their insurance, but this is exactly what insurance is for, right? Also, I believe it is against the law to leave the site of a road traffic accident without leaving contact & insurance details, but maybe someone can clarify this. Sainsbury's has a responsibility to the local area and should take steps to address this.

Thanks

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Les


Posts: 95
Joined: Jan 2004
Post: #2
31-07-2011 09:28 AM

I used to live on Davids Road and got my car side swiped damaging a couple of panels and the wing mirror, but never found the culprit. However I have seen car drivers (rat-running to the South Circular probably) misjudging the corner at the bottom of Manor Mount and colliding with cars parked on the outside of the bend which act as very expensive Armco barrier. I tried to park further along the straight section to avoid this.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #3
31-07-2011 03:35 PM

I realise that the Sainbury drivers have a duty to drive carefully and if they do have an accident leave the details , but maybe too many cars parked on places where they should not be.
Perhaps you should contact LBC to install double yellows in places to ensure the trailers have space to operate.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #4
31-07-2011 04:24 PM

Sometimes lorrydrivers are completely unaware that they have hit anything. They are driving large vehicles and the impact is some distance away from them.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #5
31-07-2011 07:38 PM

That is indeed possible.
Not sure exactly where accidents occur but I would not be surprised if cars parked too close to junctions or in places where it is not sensible to park. Just because no yellow lines people usually assume safe to park. You still have to use common sense if it is a known heavy goods vehicle route

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tohellwithculture


Posts: 8
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #6
31-07-2011 10:37 PM

All the damaged cars I have seen have been parked in the CPZ on Davids Road. The CPZ was implemented after Sainsbury's was built, so I am sure LBC would have taken this risk into account in determining whether or not it was safe (or even sensible) for resident to park their cars in the designated bays.

I accept that sometimes a lorry may not notice a minor knock, but the car involved in the latest collision I saw had buckled the driver door.

I doubt many people park on the double yellow lines in this area often these days - traffic wardens are pretty, erm, efficient.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #7
01-08-2011 08:46 AM

Our car was hit just after New Year whilst parked in Waldenshaw Road. Same damage down the side of the car, wing mirror broken off but no note. Given the nature of the damage I suspect a Sainsburys lorry but have no way of proving it.

Good luck with your claim, I hope you reported it to the police.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #8
01-08-2011 09:20 AM

First up I've got to state that I'm the son of a Sainsburys lorry driver so I'm probably not exactly impartial...

My dad's depot no longer covers FH Sainsburys but I know it was one of the shops the drivers hated delivering to. It seems that Sainsburys and local authorities aren't great at planning access for deliveries at all stores and leave the drivers to deal with the hassle of negotiating access.

There are good and bad lorry drivers (as a cyclist I have reported Sainsburys drivers more than once) so I'm sure some of them are aware of collisions but we should remember that the driver is sitting on top of a noisy diesel engine in a large, heavy vehicle in which many of the operations they perform are accompanied by significant jolts and bangs, especially during low speed manoeuvres. It is entirely possible that someone driving a vehicle weighing up to 44 tonnes could cause serious damage to a parked car through fairly minimal contact and not be aware it has happened

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DerbyHillTop


Posts: 120
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #9
01-08-2011 10:34 AM

I second IWAF remarks.

Once I spoke to my brother who is a 'bendy bus' driver about the incidents where a bus had dragged a person for a considerable distance before the driver noticed it had run over a person. My brother's response was that so many tonnes of a bus verses 80 kg person, the bump would not be anything distinguishable from the normal drive. I was completely astonished to hear that as you would compare such an incident with car driving and assume the driver must have known of the damage they had caused.

It had opened my eyes and gave me a greater respect for all the drivers of heavy goods vehicles.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #10
01-08-2011 02:10 PM

One of my colleagues is an ex police officer. One day he stopped an HGV with a person's head between the wheels. The driver was completely unaware of this!

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monika


Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #11
01-08-2011 09:29 PM

These tasteless comments echo the cavalier attitude to safety shown by Sainsbury's and their delivery vehicles. Rather than trading anecdotes, would it not make more sense to consider the increased likelihood of a fatality or serious injury occurring in Forest Hill as a direct result of the inadequate delivery arrangements? Is this increased risk considered acceptable? If not, a good starting point would be to take the damage to vehicles more seriously as this should help to prevent a more significant incident.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #12
02-08-2011 07:56 AM

Sorry Monika, you'll have to point out to me where the tasteless posts are?

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monika


Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #13
02-08-2011 09:59 AM

The previous post to mine, in particular, but also the posts that diverted a thread about damage to property into a casual discussion of manslaughter. This also trivializes the real concerns raised by the original poster. My observation was that once this link had been made the rational response would be to take the issue more seriously.

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #14
02-08-2011 11:50 AM

There is no casual discussion of manslaughter. There are no posts that explicitly state that someone died (although it is possible that that is the case). There is no evidence in the posts that the bus or lorry drivers were at fault in either incident.

The thread has been a discussion about lorries damaging cars and has been pretty balanced so far. The incidents involving people have been used to highlight how little 'feedback' drivers of large vehicles can get when involved in a collision of some sort.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #15
02-08-2011 12:06 PM

I once witnessed an HGV run over a cyclist. When he got out of his cab the driver said "What has happened here?" I raise this to show how little they are aware of other road users. Sadly for all the witnesses the accident was rather tasteless. I was told that the driver was so shocked by it that he never worked again.

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DerbyHillTop


Posts: 120
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #16
02-08-2011 05:10 PM

HGV drivers are people who earn a living by driving. Do you think they would jeopardise their income by going for a ride and cause as much damage as they can get away with. Sooner or later they would be caught and then what do they do?

I have sympathy for people with damaged property, but as others have pointed out it is very likely that the driver was not aware or the damage they caused. Who is to blame? To blame a driver is too simplistic and the future damage is likely to occur again. I thought that the planning regarding delivery access is the route to change things. (Already hinted as a problem by IWAF)

So compiling a list of possible damage is a good start which I guess was the original post's very idea. Not sure how many residents of David's and affected roads are on the forum so the thread has gone on the topics others could contribute to.

My hunch is that it may well happen more often than the residents would be happy with, and I am all for supporting them in getting the problem resolved. But I would avoid blaming the individual drivers and try to get their support too in what is possibly a nightmare for them to negotiate.

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monika


Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #17
02-08-2011 05:29 PM

Do you think they would jeopardise their income by reporting the incident if they thought there were no witnesses and there was no damage to their vehicle and if they are identified as the cause they can just say they didn't realise?
Sainsbury's and their delivery vehicles need to take responsibility for their actions. Everyone agrees there are problems accessing the store but Sainsbury's have not alleviated this effectively; the expansion of the store a few years ago involved redesigning the access but the lorries, contrary to their written instructions, drive illegally and dangerously. This situation is exacerbated because Sainsbury's do not deal with offending drivers effectively.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,351
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #18
02-08-2011 05:39 PM

I think they used to park in London Road and deliver some years ago. i suppose they are not allowed to do that now.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #19
02-08-2011 06:12 PM

Surely access should have been considered as part of the planning process for the recent extension? There should have been a fully study on how trucks get in and out of the site.

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monika


Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #20
02-08-2011 08:10 PM

As I said, access was considered but Sainsbury's delivery vehicles do not follow the arrangements.
In their planning application they "miscalculated" the increase in delivery vehicles that would result from the expansion; the actual number of delivery vehicles is about twice their estimate. The effect is that if the percentage of incidents per vehicle has remained the same the number of incidents will have doubled.
It is important to point out that the worst offenders are not the Sainsbury's branded articulated lorries but the other suppliers such as Warburton's, Kingsmill, Hovis, Dairycrest etc.

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