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Church signage on Manor Mount
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usamagpie


Posts: 24
Joined: May 2010
Post: #1
31-07-2010 01:08 PM

Is anyone else shocked by the massive, gaudy church signage spoiling the frontage of the church on Manor Mount? I would have thought they needed planning permission for something of that size given its a conservation area. It's like a religious version of a Las Vegas casino outside! What's wrong with a tasteful, discreet sign? I don't need Jesus rammed down my throat every time I walk down the street...

Keen to hear whether anyone else finds it as hideous and unecessary as me? I've attached a couple of pictures for you to see what I mean.

       

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #2
31-07-2010 02:30 PM

Unfortunatly, ever since faith became commercial this has become the accepted practise. Seems there are all sorts of examples of that popping up, but that is particularly yuk.

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usamagpie


Posts: 24
Joined: May 2010
Post: #3
31-07-2010 03:00 PM

Thanks Snazy. Pleased I'm not losing the plot... I'll give Lewisham a call on Monday and see what they have to say. This is a residential area, not a high street. These so called christians should show some respect.

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manor mountie


Posts: 26
Joined: Jun 2010
Post: #4
01-08-2010 10:06 AM

what i dislike most about the new frontage here is the stadium like steps and handrails that give the impression that throngs of worshippers queue to get in of a sunday. personally i have never seen anyone enter or leave this way i think most enter and leave via devonshire road, i guess planning permission must have been sought so more fool me for not objecting......

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usamagpie


Posts: 24
Joined: May 2010
Post: #5
01-08-2010 10:51 AM

Yes, there is a planning permission notice for the railings on the lampost on the street. I guess they're going to move the entrance from Devonshire Road to Manor Mount at some point, and remove the chicken wire fence along the pavement at that point. Should make weekend parking on Manor Mount and Davids Road fun. Sainsburys car park is full of chuch-goers on Sundays as it is.

The planning app doesn't mention signage though, and getting that removed would at least lessen the eyesore, I think. I guess there's no getting away from the steps and parking issues now, unfortunately.

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sydenhamcentral


Posts: 269
Joined: Mar 2008
Post: #6
01-08-2010 11:45 AM

Yep, they look horrible. I'm not even sure they are going to work, they would put me off.

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junegapi


Posts: 106
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #7
01-08-2010 11:56 AM

Looks like an opportunity for more cars to disobey the No Entry signs at the top of Manor Mount, from Honor Oak Road.

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usamagpie


Posts: 24
Joined: May 2010
Post: #8
01-08-2010 04:31 PM

Agreed - none of it looks positive for local residents

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Snazy


Posts: 1,495
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #9
01-08-2010 04:40 PM

Let's just hope when their commercial venture takes off properly that they don't clog the streets up in the same selfish fashion events at Crystals on PV do, and the followers that use the "church" opposite the Hob and at the bottom of Sunderland Road do/did.

Desperate times call for us to seek hope and faith, but surely it was never meant to cost you?

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usamagpie


Posts: 24
Joined: May 2010
Post: #10
02-08-2010 08:06 AM

Anyone out there who attends the church in question care to share plans that will reassure us?

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usamagpie


Posts: 24
Joined: May 2010
Post: #11
02-08-2010 12:06 PM

I've just spoken with Jody from Enforcements at Lewisham Council. Apparently others have also complained and about a week ago he gave the church notice that they have to remove the signs within 10-14 days, otherwise he will take action against them. He's going over there to see them again today and will tell them to remove the signs. They aren't allowed on a church. Hoorah! Thanks, Lewisham Council. Much appreciated.

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #12
06-08-2010 09:24 PM

Dreadful signs outside the Church Worldwide, at the new David's Road entrance at the bottom of Manor Mount. This is the old St John's church, which was lovely, and still should be.

Lots of people are up in arms about the new signs and I have been told that the council told the CW to remove them by last Friday (31 July), but nothing has happened. Is this true? The council planning enforcement team told me this week they would come and look at it.

Have they already been? Does anyone have any reliable info on this? Does everyone else hate the signs as much as we do (Manor Mount and David's Road)?

This after years of trouble with noise from the church, solved by the council and Alex Feakes together.

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usamagpie


Posts: 24
Joined: May 2010
Post: #13
10-08-2010 02:34 PM

A quick update for those interested in this thread... I spoke with Jodi at Lewisham Planning Enforcement (020 8314 7400) today, for the second time. Jodi's been round almost daily to the church, tried calling the numbers on the sign which apparently are dud, and so far had no joy. He's trying to speak with the Pastor of the church who seems to be out of the country. Jodi's assessment is that the signs can't stay up and he is trying to get them taken down as soon as possible. He expects some sort of resolution in the coming couple of weeks. He's really helpful and approachable. I'm going to be away for a few days so won't be able to call but he said it does actually help when people let him know the latest. So if anyone feels the urge please do keep him informed Thumbsup. Thanks

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #14
18-09-2010 11:04 AM

It is not only the garish and obtrusive new billboards, but the new, excessively wide concrete steps and the seven foot railings and security gates. All these are brutal, hideous, and unsuited to a beautiful old Victorian church.

For over a hundred years St Johnís Church was a central part of our community and the south-western aspect of its Hall was attractive and welcoming to all. Following the above changes, that aspect now resembles a security-conscious light-industrial unit, inappropriate for a church, and especially in a conservation area.

What is more, the Council has confirmed that the above changes have all been made without planning permission, and that the church is now applying for permission retrospectively. The Forest Hill Conservation Area is protected by the Councilís planning regulations under the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995, Article 4(2), Restricting Permitted Development. Local people are very angry, feeling that these changes breach both the letter and spirit of the Councilís regulations.

We need to ensure that Lewisham Council are made aware of local feeling on these issues. If you are concerned, therefore, please email, phone or write to the Council. In the past they have responded well to local concerns and it is therefore well worth the effort.

The Planning Enforcement Officer dealing with this is Jodi Solomons, who is very approachable. It is also vital to keep our three local Councillors in the loop. They are Alex Feakes, Philip Peake (both Lib Dem) and Anne Affiku (Labour). Alex and Philip have been our Councillors for a long time and have done a great deal for the area. Anne is new to us, having been elected in May.

Jodi Solomons : 020 8314 7400 planning@lewisham.gov.uk
Alex Feakes : 020 8291 3985 cllr_alex.feakes@lewisham.gov.uk
Anne Affiku : 020 8314 6897 cllr_anne.affiku@lewisham.gov.uk
Philip Peake : 020 8699 2430 cllr_philip.philip@lewisham.gov.uk

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reverendlionelblair


Posts: 47
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #15
18-09-2010 12:06 PM

I think these signs are exceptionally tasteful and have found myself feeling far more spiritual and connected to the lord god our saviour as a result of having bathed within their flourescent glow.

The 'Friday Miracle Deliverance Service' is a real treat I would suggest no-one should miss out on. Real class.

Is parking an issue in the Forest Hill area? After the campaign to evict the Jerk Chicken festival can we expect a ban on all cars not owned by local residents in the next few months?

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hillsideresident


Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #16
04-10-2010 05:37 PM

The owner of the Recovery Centre at the old St John's Church (in David's Road, at the bottom of Manor Mount) has now put in a retrospective application for permission for all his changes: huge concrete steps, seven-foot boundary fence and enormous billboards.

It is therefore very important that all who are upset by this treatment of the old and beautiful church of St John's write to Lewisham Planning to register their objections.

Write (don't email) to:
Jody Solomons and Regina Jaszinski
Lewisham Council Planning Dept
Laurence House
1 Catford Road
London SE6 4RU

The officers dealing with this case are Jody Solomons and Regina Jaszinski. They have been very helpful and approachable, so don't be aggressive or antagonistic. But if you are concerned, do please write.

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petersutton01


Posts: 21
Joined: May 2008
Post: #17
04-10-2010 07:31 PM

I'll be writing in. This shouldnt have been allowed in the first place. So sad to see beautiful buildings like this fall apart at the hands of those who dont care and this is only one example. I have always been saddened by the condition of the beautiful church down by the junction of the south circular (at the harvester). Its such an amazing building but is clearly not being looked after well, with its temporary corregated iron roof and smashed windows simply being boarded up.

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Renzon


Posts: 30
Joined: Jun 2007
Post: #18
05-10-2010 01:08 PM

This area is in a Conservation Area, which means that it is an area of "special architectural or historic interest the character or appearance of which it is desirable to protect or enhance".

Unless the Conservation Officer at Lewisham Council is incompetent, I see no reason why they should not refuse the application.

In any case, I shall also be writing in......directly to the Conservation Officer if I can get his/her contact details....

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michael


Posts: 3,198
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #19
05-10-2010 01:47 PM

At present there is not a planning application on Lewisham's website,it usually takes a few days.

Unfortunately, in applying for retrospective permission it shows that they intend to keep the current signs and other changes, without taking account of local views and the conservation area designation (character area 2 on page 29) - 'Late 19th century residential development in Devonshire Road'.

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #20
05-10-2010 02:20 PM

The Church had planning permission for railings with brick piers and a new porch (Ref: 03/55594 12/08/2004), but this may have lapsed.

The plans do not include the stadium style steps.

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