Not sure that I'm qualified to have a view on how the railway is being run in trying circumstances. However, I'm really glad that I don't have to commute to London daily!

Last night, I reached Canada Water some time before 8:00pm. The indicator boards were showing the wrong trains. The station staff did a good job of announcing where the trains were in fact going, and eventually I got on a Crystal Palace train. As we were pulling into New Cross Gate, the driver announced that the train would terminate there. As we got out, it was announced that the next Caterham train would leave from platform 3, but it was not announced that it was 'fast' to Norwood Junction (I knew this, but intended to get a train back from there). It was then announced that the train was actually fast to Norwood Junction so most of the people crossing to platform 3 turned around and came back. I managed to miss the train as it was not possible to get through the streams of confused travellers going in both directions. A stopping Caterham train then pulled in to platform 2, with hardly any announcement, and, guess what, pulled out before most of the passengers coming back from platform 3 had reached platform 2. Then a Crystal Palace overground train pulled in. Come back M. Hulot we need you now.

One thing I did not like was the haranguing of the platform staff. They don't have much control over this and bullying is not attractive. A demonstration outside the head office of the railway company might be another thing.

I go up to town about three times a week, at different times, and, as a public service, in recognition of the generous contribution from the taxpayer represented by my freedom pass, I shall try some imaginative routes home and let you all know how I do. My next route is Warren St-Victoria-Penge East-176/197 bus. I tried something similar on Monday when there was a signal failure on the Jubilee.

I too experienced what DavidWhiting experienced and agree. There is no need to harangue the station staff - I spoke with them and the two guys on the platform informed me that they are in fact agency staff - not properly qualified station/platform managers.

Southern are currently using New Cross Gate strategically - they have reduced the rush hour service and are dumping passengers, expecting them to continue their journey on the ELL. However, TfL are terminating that service there too. Last night the number of people on the platform was dangerous, the volume of people coming up and down the stairs came to s standstill. However, there were no qualified station workers to deal with it.

That is unfair on them, front line workers, and the customers using it. it is a disgrace - someone is going to get hurt

Using New Cross Gate strategically sounds like a good idea as long as TFL do something like running a shuttle service between Canada Water and possibly Sydenham (where they can turn the trains round).

One slightly sad aspect of the recent disruption has been the sort of haranguing of junior staff described above. Another has been an increase in aggressive behaviour between commuters.

Over the last couple of weeks I've seen what seems like a lot more incidents of arguments at train doors (between those trying to board who are clearly frustrated and people barely able to board the train at the previous station and stuck by the door).

I've also noticed a lot of people shuffling along the platform edge to get on to Overground trains at Canada Water - a slightly reckless manoeuvre and one which clearly causes problems for drivers who have to slow to a crawl as they edge along the platform. I also think it's incredibly rude and selfish, which probably ties back to a discussion on another thread lately.

I must confess that I have taken to shuffling along the edge of the platform at Canada water.
It does make me nervous being so near to the incoming trains especially when people do tend to push and shove HOWEVER I can't see any other way to get on the train and come home after a hard day at work.
A few times I stood towards the back, but when the trains did come in I was literally pushed off my feet by people shoving to get on the train-and therefore got pushed further and further aside.
Its dangerous and deeply unpleasant having to go through this every evening especially when I pay over £1500 a year for the 'privilage'

I've started avoiding Canada Water on the way home - I get on the Overground further up the track, by using a different combination of tubes from work. Probably adds ten minutes to my journey home, which is totally offset by the fact that I'll get straight on a train, and won't have to wait for the next, or the next, or the next... or teeter on the edge of the platform. If you're lucky, you even get a seat by the time you get to CW so avoid the crush!

I take the 0735 (used to be the 0734 last year) every morning to Clapham Junction where I join a SW Trains service to Surbiton where I work. The 0735 hasn't been on time once for me this year, with at least 4 cancellations forcing me onto an Overground train to Crystal Palace (where there are 4 to Clapham Junction an hour) to change trains. As a consequence I think I've been on time for work once this year :')

The service is obviously appalling and I'm more annoyed with arriving at the station 5 minutes before the train only to find its been cancelled at the last minute rather than anything else. That and trains which would almost be on time skipping FH to pick up passengers further down the line. Think someone said further upthread it's almost as if Southern are running an imaginary service they don't think is real. People are really affected by a day-in, day-out horrendous train service when they rely on it. I'm a normally chilled out person and I have kind of noticed my stress levels going through the roof this year.

Anyway. Does anyone have any advice about a more reliable route I can take for my journey given I have a 2-6 travelcard? Don't really want to change trains more than once or twice. I have considered cycling to Clapham Junction but it's not entirely practical.

Well pop the champagne corks, the 9:12 arrived at 9:15 this morning and was only 10 minutes late getting into LB. Admittedly they had cancelled the next service the 9:22 but hey!

I did however wait 40 minutes for a late running service from LB last night, guess what, bad signalling.

What a farce.

plasticniki,
You've probably considered it already, and it is probably longer when southbound trains are running well, but you could take the overground to Surrey Quays and change to the Clapham branch (should take 43 minutes to Clapham).

According to the timetable:
FH 07:23 - SQ - CJ 08:04
FH 07:38 - SQ - CJ 08:25

Another alternative is to head for East Croydon and change there (possibly with an extra change at Norwood Junction to switch if you are on a West Croydon train).

According to the timetable:
FH 07:20 - EC - CJ 07:51
FH 07:25 - NJ - EC - CJ 08:06
FH 07:49 - EC - CJ 08:17

Clearly neither route is as good as:
FH 07:35 - CJ 08:01 (no change via Crystal Place)
FH 07:45 - CP - CJ 08:16
But that assumes the trains are running!

Where are you coming from plastic, FH?

Have you tried going to East Croydon, then fast to CJunction? Not sure it's a good idea, just an idea.

You're alive to the C Palace route.

Up or over to P Rye/D Hill/C Park and then direct to CJ/change at say D Hill?

I agree that the situation at Canada Water could rapidly become dangerous due to over-crowding. Hope the railway companies have detailed plans for all eventualities. For example, say the overground came to a halt while the Jubilee was still delivering passengers. Overcrowding would soon become impossible. The option of closing the station gates which is used at the London termini would not apply here - it is much more complex. The plans would have to be detailed, with good rapid communication built in, and supported by knowledgeable staff who had been involved in appropriate training exercises. Otherwise you could have a debacle such as that at Finsbury Park on 27th December. Passengers were directed there, but no arrangements were in place to marshal the numbers which were way beyond what Finsbury Park could handle. It seems a reasonable issue for our various amenity societies to raise both with the railway companies and our MP.

On another note, I said I would try some alternative routes to and from town. Today I intended to try Victoria to Penge East and bus back to Forest Hill. Owing to a tree on the line somewhere the Penge train was not running, so I got on the 09:39 to Denmark Hill and then caught the bus. Worked quite well - 10 minutes on the train and 22 on the bus. My starting point was Tottenham Court Road, so you have to add another 10 minutes to get from there to Victoria. That seems quite competitive with the Jubilee/overground route as it is at the moment (admittedly against the rush hour flow), and much more comfortable (for example, something called a seat is available for most of the journey). The problem is that the Denmark Hill timetable is four trains an hour, but with intervals of 4 minutes and 26 minutes so it is really a half-hourly service. On the other there are other choices at Victoria, so I will try something else next time

OK, two things on Southern website.
London Bridge- "Owing to signalling problems at London Bridge no services can operate between London Bridge and New Cross Gate." There have been signalling problems every day this week?

Then from a link on the mian page there are further announcements re train changes http://www.southernrailway.com/southern/...services/, the most important being that "The following services which have been withdrawn since Wednesday 7 January remain withdrawn:

They are the 16.36, 17.06, 17.38, 18.06 and 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon services and the 17.12, 17.42 and 18.13 West Croydon to London Bridge services."

I don't see them coming back any time soon or that the remaining trains can be relied on given that signalling is screwed.

So, I have written to Southern today
"Good morning,

I wish to complain about the fact that several trains to West Croydon are withdrawn: The following services which have been withdrawn since Wednesday 7 January remain withdrawn: They are the 16.36, 17.06, 17.38, 18.06 and 18.36 London Bridge to West Croydon services and the 17.12, 17.42 and 18.13 West Croydon to London Bridge services.

Given that the London Bridge to Sydenham route is hugely busy, it is not acceptable to reduce to 2 trains per hour, especially given that you cannot rely on those trains to leave on time. Any advice to use Canada Water is and Overground is contradicted by the fact that the overground interchange there is overcrowded (in fact posters at stations say do not use Canada Water between 4:30pm to 7:30pm for overcrowding). New Cross Gate is also getting dangerously overcrowded.

It seems that the work in anticipating what services could be delivered from start of JAN15 was, how shall I say, not done very well. Perhaps more importantly there is a real and increasing risk of injury caused by the overcrowding at London Bridge, Canada Water and New Cross Gate.

The current position is wholly unacceptable and also dangerous. Have you any indication as to when the situation will improve. For instance is the daily "signalling problems" something that will be fixed in the near future.

Regards "
I'd suggest its time for people to email / write to anyone you can think off - Southern, Mayors Office, Evening Standard etc. Stress the Health & Safety issues..
BTW, the route I have settled on to get back to HOP is train from either Cannon St or Lon Bridge to New Cross. Then 171 or 172. Its annoying to have to get a bus, its longer, but its relatively predictable and stress free.

Completely agree David W.

And keep up the research! But if you could lay out where you're starting from and going to exactly (stations, not your home address!) that would make it more useful.

Thank you for your kind comments. I live on Dartmouth Road, so there is a slight benefit in journey time in that the bus stop is close to my house, and on the return journey it isn't necessary to cross from one side of the station to the other.

My destination in London is usually Tottenham Court Road. The journey from there to Victoria is slightly complicated as Central line trains are not stopping at TCR station for a year or so (the new entrance to TCR raises another set of questions, as all passengers exit at the same point where the pavement is narrow, but that for another time). The options are Northern Line - either to Embankment then District and C, or to Warren Street then Victoria. It takes about 12 minutes from TCR via Warren Street.

The point about contacting the press is sound. I have already contacted the Standard by phone.

Not sure what happened this morning but the 7.26 Overground (late as normal) was much more packed than usual. Seemed to take 20 minutes to get to Canada Water.

Huge queue to get down the escalators, 4 people on the platform trying to re-direct people, most people ignoring them seemingly.

I can't imagine what it likes on the later overground trains, or how anyone gets on them at present before Canada Water.

So it will be a half-hourly off-peak service in the evening 'for four weeks after which time we will review the situation'.

Now is the time to divert at least two of the New Cross Overground trains to West Croydon, filling the Southern slots. No such announcement has been made but surely it is only a matter of time before the overcrowding at Canada Water and on trains means this is essential for passenger safety.

As suggested by David Whiting I have written on behalf of the Forest Hill Society to Southern, LOROL, Jim Dowd, and London TravelWatch to complain about the poor services. I think they will already be aware, but I agree that it is quite right that we express our annoyance as a civic society.

Email received from London Overground this morning:

I apologise for the unacceptable level of service on London Overground's route from Highbury & Islington to West Croydon, Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction.

As you know, there have been significant service issues at London Bridge and both Southern and Network Rail accept that performance has not been good enough. As we share the same tracks as trains operated by Southern to and from London Bridge, there has been a knock on effect on our services.

We are pressing Network Rail and Southern to address these issues as quickly as possible so that we can restore your services to their previous standard. And, as part of our existing programme to improve your service, we are continuing to introduce an extra carriage on your trains to increase capacity.

I will keep you informed of progress.

Yours sincerely,

Mike Stubbs
Director London Overground, Transport for London

That's interesting. London Overground publicly laying the blame with Southern and Network Rail for the recent chaos suggests they have reached the limit of their patience.

It could be argued that the general overcrowding at Canada Water is their own fault for not anticipating passenger numbers. But the current situation is above and beyond that. It feels to me that all the current strategies have been a bit ad hoc, on the hoof, reactionary. They all need to sit down, acknowledge that this is a problem that isn't going away by itself and put some proper medium-term solutions in place.

I got that email too.

I started off thinking - ah, well at least someone is saying sorry, that is a start; and it's not the people who are responsible for the worst of it either (i.e. Network Rail and Southern). I awarded some mental plus points.

Then I got to the next para, subtitled 'Blame Shift'. Whereupon I traded my plus points for minus ones!

http://recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Searc...2&MxArCl=5

is the Honor Oak Park to London B service for the last 4 weeks, if you fancy being truly depressed.

The Overground service looks sparkling by comparison, small wonder it's crammed to the gills and beyond:
http://recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Searc...2&MxArCl=5