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London Bridge trains - here's the best and the worst peak services
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Decker


Posts: 116
Joined: Nov 2014
Post: #1
15-12-2014 12:50 PM

It's not all in your head. Performance has been atrocious in peak hour lately. Check this table out. Anything after 7:50am expect to be delayed by 5+ minutes more than half the time. (data based on last 4 weeks).

Recenttraintimes.co.uk

Use this website to check other dates/times. Coming home is not much better. Especially after 5:30. I think I'm going to have to start waking up earlier.

This post was last modified: 15-12-2014 12:51 PM by Decker.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #2
15-12-2014 01:14 PM

Great spot, thanks. Fantastic use of open data.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #3
15-12-2014 01:16 PM

The 9:12 was on time this morning and the driver was met with a smattering of applause when he announced we were pulling into LB a whole 2 minutes EARLY!

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lillam


Posts: 129
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #4
16-12-2014 12:32 AM

i get the 9.20 or 9.27...neither of which even showed up today...what a joke

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #5
16-12-2014 09:16 AM

Yep, really rubbish service today. Still, we get a new LB in 3 years, pity we won't be able to get there.

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squashst


Posts: 129
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #6
16-12-2014 11:43 AM

Interesting information. It will be a smaller report in 2015 because a couple of trains will disappear entirely with the revised timetable in JAN2015 - in particular the 08:31 from F.Hill). Can't say I'm holding my breath on improvements for those trains that remain though. I think I'll be Crofton Park to Blackfriars from Jan - a longer journey but avoids the "train stacks" ourtside London Bridge

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EDjules


Posts: 17
Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #7
17-12-2014 10:44 AM

Very interesting thanks for sharing.

I didn't realise that the 0833 from honor oak was not running next year. this is going to be fun. Also how is it that a 12min train journey now takes 20mins officially, just so they aren't 'running late' anymore...all a bit ryanair.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #8
17-12-2014 11:43 AM

Yes, squeezing all those extra passengers onto 4/5 car Overground due to LB engineering work, even with extra services, is going to be a challenge anyway but this does make it worse.

Southern do have a history of this. I used to commute to East Croydon and there is a Forest Hill service every half hour during the day. Or at least there used to be - there is no 6pm from EC, which would be the most popular in the evening, as it was so tardy they took it out of the schedule altogether.

If you have been on the receiving end of multiple consecutive "cancellations" due to late running then the Ryanair tag, though arguably pejorative, is fitting. My reading is that they leave so little turnaround time at the terminus that the only way to get subsequent services back on schedule is to run services fast. Apparently this doesn't count as a cancellation though if you are left standing on the platform but does cause a lot of aggravation when you see "your" train passing through without stopping. So if this happens routinely, just don't run the service at all - there, problem solved!

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oryx


Posts: 202
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #9
18-12-2014 01:12 AM

lacb, I actually wrote to Southern a while back asking why there wasn't a 6pm train as it seems ridiculous when otherwise they are on the half hour!

I just got an evasive/standard reply - in fact tonight as I had to change at Norwood Junction yet again I thought about digging out the email and pursuing it again.

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squashst


Posts: 129
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #10
18-12-2014 10:48 AM

My last ever ride on the 08:33 from HOP today - sniff (as day off tomorrow). It went out in style - shown on board as 5 mins late, then didn't arrive because "its stuck at Forest Hill Station but we don't know why", arrived at 8:50 or so then caught in a "train stack" outside London Bridge, arrived 9:20am. Though, not all bad, I had a seat.
Gone, but not forgotten.

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MightyMouse


Posts: 122
Joined: Apr 2012
Post: #11
18-12-2014 11:30 AM

Wearing my shiniest tin foil hat, I'm wondering if the service has been so poor of late intentionally, so that we won't be so upset when the Southern trains disappear for the next fortnight. Or indeed when a couple of trains disappear for good.

And the more people who decide to move to the Overground permanently, the fewer refunds they'd have to make for late/cancelled Southern trains.

Still, as long as the people who commute from Bedford to Brighton are happy, never mind, eh?

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EDjules


Posts: 17
Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #12
18-12-2014 01:05 PM

Ill be filling in my refund for each journey from now on! Yesterday evening my journey took 82mins from the time i got on a train at london bridge to the time i got off (another) train at honor oak. This morning the journey took 37mins in reverse. The delay at forest hill was because someone pulled the alarm on the train - probably due to the overcrowding which will only be getting worse. Also saw poor lady being ill at london bridge after getting off this train. Also feel sorry for people in New cross that dont even get on the trains.

Whilst we can use our point-to-point ticket during the london bridge closure im assuming we can use this next year with the loss of the 0833. I wonder then if they cancel the 0823 or 0844 (inevitable), or we cant get on the train due to overcrowding - if we can use our train tickets for the overground or do we then have to pay more? Anyone had communications with southern about this already?

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
18-12-2014 01:39 PM

EDJ Wrote:
Whilst we can use our point-to-point ticket during the london bridge closure im assuming we can use this next year with the loss of the 0833. I wonder then if they cancel the 0823 or 0844 (inevitable), or we cant get on the train due to overcrowding - if we can use our train tickets for the overground or do we then have to pay more? Anyone had communications with southern about this already?

I've been battling on this one for months and years. I got a definitive response from TfL that Canada Water is NOT regarded as a permissible route. Both Lewisham Council's head of transport and I have asked TfL to reconsider this decision.

Waterloo, Charing Cross, Southwark and London Bridge underground station barriers will accept point-to-point tickets from mid-January, when interchange is not permitted. But I'm told that starting at Forest Hill and traveling to Waterloo underground via Canada Water is not acceptable, instead I must travel via London Bridge and use that underground station. If you miss the 0823 that means a wait until 0844 for the next LB train and then a crush on the Jubilee line (if you can enter the station).

Obviously I would much prefer to jump on the first train at Forest Hill without caring about the destination, knowing that I can change to the Jubilee Line. I'm trying to work out my options for next year:
1) Obey the rules and travel through London Bridge and the horribly crowded entrance to the underground
2) Buy a travel card for an extra £400 for the year (I'm sure I can think of better ways to spend £400)
3) Ignore the rules and take whatever train I want. I expect the ticket barriers will let me through, so I'll be okay as long as a ticket inspector doesn't stop me between NXG and LB on the underground.

I'm very tempted by the third option and believe that I would have a good case in court to claim that I was not abusing the system. I was entitled to use both of the trains and my start and destinations were valid. Perhaps I just forgot to get off the train at the appropriate interchange?

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squashst


Posts: 129
Joined: Mar 2009
Post: #14
18-12-2014 09:38 PM

Basically the best thing is in 2015 to avoid the F/Hill / H/Oak Park route in morning peak. Clearly that is not possible for all, but options are:
- work from home as much as possible
- tell your employer about the disruption at L Bridge and get your hours adjusted
- find an alternative destination. Blackfriars has entance/exit both south/north river, so quite a good destination
- be prepared to travel to other stations - Crofton Park, Catford etc

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #15
19-12-2014 12:47 PM

Catford already pretty rammed from 7.45 onwards. I now go into work at 7 to avoid the frustration!

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ladywotlunches


Posts: 147
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #16
19-12-2014 04:06 PM

Agree with PVP, if you're thinking of using the Crofton park-Blackfriars route to avoid overcrowding (rather than the issue with interchanging), then don't bother - the trains are arguably worse than the Ginger line at any time after 7.45 until 9.30.

Unless of course, the delightful Thameslink in their wisdom think about using some of the rolling stock not in service now London Bridge is closed to extend the 8 carriage (or sometimes even 4 carriage!) trains on the routes that are running to ease congestion. But that might be just too sensible!

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rbmartin


Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #17
19-12-2014 10:30 PM

Quote:
Unless of course, the delightful Thameslink in their wisdom think about using some of the rolling stock not in service now London Bridge is closed to extend the 8 carriage (or sometimes even 4 carriage!) trains on the routes that are running to ease congestion. But that might be just too sensible!


I doubt that will happen as Thameslink will be operating an off-peak service from London Bridge to Brighton using the Southern platforms until 2018.

I'm in two minds about allowing Southern customers to use Canada Water as those 4 car (soon to be 5 car) services are already rammed to the rafters. Yet, it'd be a useful alternative outside of the peaks. A Southern season to London Terminals works out cheaper than a Travelcard and despite the changes, will allow you to travel on the tube to those stations Michael mentioned (plus Elephant & Castle to change for Thameslink).

I used to get the 0917 to Canada Water, but soon stopped using the Overground as I couldn't even get a seat on that, so went back to the LB services (0912 or 0920) where 9/10 I can get a seat.

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Teabloke2


Posts: 1
Joined: Dec 2014
Post: #18
20-12-2014 02:04 PM

Those travelling on Southern only period rail tickets from the Forest Hill line to Central London can get off at New Cross Gate and then walk to New Cross and catch a Charing Cross bound service from there. The guy in the ticket hall at New Cross yesterday that this would be ok from mid-January.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #19
21-12-2014 10:39 AM

Bear in mind that once the new Travelcard capping comes in (no off-peak) there will be others using the trains pre 0930 that previously might have waited til later.

Reference journey times increasing to give more wiggle room is an excellent example of where having KPI targets drives the wrong behaviour rather than the improvements it was intended for.

If it does all prove horrendous from Jan, then it might be worth seriously thinking about trying a cycle commute in the spring and reclaim that annual travelcard. Forest Hill into town takes 30-40 minutes (less if you're a speedier sort) and you'll always get a seat.

Cramming onto buses/trains and never knowing when I might arrive in the office was why I started doing it several years ago - and from the few days that I now do it, the service has got worse. My commute went from the most frustrating to one of the best bits of my day.

Then again, that doesn't help improve the service for those who can't (aside from perhaps making it a little less overcrowded). Good luck all

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rbmartin


Posts: 795
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #20
22-12-2014 10:59 PM

Quote:
Those travelling on Southern only period rail tickets from the Forest Hill line to Central London can get off at New Cross Gate and then walk to New Cross and catch a Charing Cross bound service from there. The guy in the ticket hall at New Cross yesterday that this would be ok from mid-January.


Not that will be of any use as Southeastern trains calling at New Cross and St. Johns will all go to Cannon Street only from the start of the new timetable in January. It's a permanent change as well.

If this comes from the London Overground staff, they're really clueless when it comes to issues regarding Southern.

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