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Bakerloo Line Extension
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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #41
05-12-2013 01:55 PM

A little note from IanVisits:

Quote:
The periodic board meeting minutes at TfL have been published, and amongst all the words and pictures some useful nuggets sometimes emerge...

Interestingly, the long running calls for improved services south of Lewisham to Bromley are mentioned, with a possible dual DLR-Bakerloo Line project being talked about. All subject to funding of course.


I really like the idea of a dual DLR-Bakerloo Line project converging on Bell Green rather than Lewisham. No doubt they have the latter in mind rather than the former, but it does show that if people across South East London keep campaigning about Bakerloo line extension that it does slowly get into regular discussions by the people who really matter.

I did raise this issue recently with a government minister. They were talking about how HS2 won't go over budget as it has a £14bn contingency, I said that it is infuriating to hear about contingencies the size of the Olympics plus the Bakerloo line. Pushing ahead with such projects with such unreasonable margins for error prevents more rapid expansion of services in other parts of the network.

Unfortunately on this occasion I did not get a commitment from the minister to start digging, although there was some recognition of the transport difficulties in South London.

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lacb


Posts: 627
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #42
06-12-2013 08:50 AM

Great spot. Thought I would follow the links: the section I have found to do with this says something subtly different, from the TFL Business plan 2013:

Quote:
We are continuing to assess ways to improve
access to Lewisham and Bromley. These will
be considered through a coordinated approach,
which will include options such as a possible
extension of the Bakerloo line, the DLR or the
Overground. A key focus is how any proposal
will be funded.


Source here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tf.../1436.aspx

Still, encouraging that South East London gets a mention as Michael says.

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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #43
10-12-2013 06:16 PM

From an SE23 point of view, I guess we do not want the overground from New Cross to be extended to Lewisham/Catford/Beckenham/Bromley/Hayes as this might prove a popular route and there can only so much line capacity towards Canada Water.

But that would be the logical thing to do.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,412
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #44
11-12-2013 11:23 AM

The difficulty may be between Ladywell and New Cross. there may be a capacity issue.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,412
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #45
31-01-2014 12:59 PM

I quote from a letter dated 21 January 2014 from Boris Johnson, Mayor for London:-

"I believe strongly that a southern extension to the Bakerloo line is a key scheme for meeting London's growth needs. I have asked TfL to investigate how the scheme could be brought forward. I envisage the extension featuring in my forthcoming Infrastructure Investment Plan, to be published this year."

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #46
20-04-2014 03:52 PM

Whilst this has been talked about for years, something official seems to be happening which is good news. Alas the project is as yet unfunded.

http://www.transportxtra.com/magazines/l.../?id=37097

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Ponyboy


Posts: 18
Joined: Mar 2012
Post: #47
20-04-2014 08:24 PM

Wih the massive success of the ELL Bakerloo Souh has to be a wise thing to do. Making use of overground tracks will surely keep the costs reasonable. South from Lewisham to Catford would get my vote.

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lacb


Posts: 627
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #48
20-04-2014 09:25 PM
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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #49
20-04-2014 09:39 PM

Making use of overground tracks would do little to improve capacity on the rail network. I would far prefer the same technique as planned in Crossrail 1 and Crossrail 2 - an entirely new tunnel going as far as possible, preferably connecting with existing transport hubs across South London as well as areas with no existing rail network. This might be a route via New Cross Gate and Lewisham or it might be a route via Denmark Hill and Honor Oak/Forest Hill. Alternatively if the Crystal Palace is to become a major cultural destination, then it would make sense to take the Bakerloo line there (underground).

Extending the East London Line from New Cross to Lewisham and beyond makes some sense as it would only be four trains per hour, so it might not impact capacity on other overland routes.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #50
21-04-2014 09:48 AM

Quote:
Extending the East London Line from New Cross to Lewisham and beyond makes some sense as it would only be four trains per hour, so it might not impact capacity on other overland routes.

Please, no, Michael. Sitting (or, more often, standing, as there aren't many seats) for (what seems) ages on Canada Water station late at night, when the next two trains are for New Cross and Clapham Junction, is bad enough. Having to wait for Lewisham trains as well to sail past would be the last straw.

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robin orton


Posts: 716
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #51
21-04-2014 10:46 AM

On reflection, I didn't think that through. I guess it would just mean that the current New Cross trains went on to Lewisham, so that the time gap between the trains to West Croydon or Crystal Palace wouldn't be affected?

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #52
21-04-2014 01:29 PM

I assume that would be the idea. There is room on the central section for a couple more trains per hour, ideally these would go to crystal palace, but they could go to lewisham if there was more capacity heading to lewisham, which sounds unlikely.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #53
22-07-2014 02:32 PM

Southwark Council are backing a twin-track approach - quite literally. One route to Old Kent Road and another through Camberwell and Peckham.

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/7741

Presumably the Peckham route would either need to go through Crofton Park, Honor Oak Park, or Forest Hill.

Boris Johnson is quoted as saying 'stand by for amazing news' regarding the Bakerloo line.

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lacb


Posts: 627
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #54
22-07-2014 03:24 PM

Yes and Bromley council have referred to the Bakerloo extension too but are light on route detail:
http://cds.bromley.gov.uk/documents/s500...romley.pdf

Their stated frequency would imply that they (would like to) think all the trains are heading their way though.

Does also imply that Overground extension via New Cross is still in the mix but doesn't look promising for DLR route - no business case apparently.

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PVP


Posts: 271
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #55
22-07-2014 09:35 PM

The DLR extension was effectively dropped a couple of months ago when the Bakerloo was given a boost. I think it was a Lewisham Council feasibility study... damn cannot find the link. Will keep looking...

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InTheForest


Posts: 46
Joined: Feb 2012
Post: #56
27-07-2014 09:28 PM

Michael, what do you meant there's room for a couple more trains? I assumed the reason we are all packed in like cattle was they couldn't fit any more trains on the line.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,412
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #57
30-07-2014 10:31 AM

I think it is going to get worse in the last week of August. I think there will be no mainline trains to London Bridge from 24 to 31 August 2014.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #58
30-07-2014 11:37 AM

There are extra Underground trains to compensate in that week.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #59
30-07-2014 02:24 PM

Consultation is beginning on plans that include the Bakerloo line extension to Lewisham and Bromley
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/7757

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ambient
No longer registered

Posts: 85
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #60
31-07-2014 10:05 AM

Better than nothing I suppose, but still somewhat underwhelming, least of all from the 2040 thing but mainly because of the persistence with the "easy option" of taking over existing surface lines. If the population is going to grow as much as projected, it should all be new tunnels as far as possible providing new capacity and new connectivity.

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