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Bakerloo Line Extension
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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #1
04-02-2013 11:57 AM

The possibility of an extension of the Bakerloo Line to Southwark and Lewisham was discussed on the Sunday Politics.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #2
04-02-2013 01:02 PM

Yes, it was good to see some backing from Southwark for this.

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Erekose


Posts: 517
Joined: May 2010
Post: #3
04-02-2013 01:22 PM

Good to see it is being talked about again......80 odd years after first proposal - can't move too quickly in these matters......

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #4
04-02-2013 02:05 PM
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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #5
04-02-2013 07:59 PM

When I lived in Camberwell some 30 years ago, "they" were going to extend it south along the Walworth Road. Huge increases in my property's price would be assured. Yeah, right!

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #6
05-02-2013 12:20 PM

I think the tunnels already go to Camberwell Green, but they are used to store trains!

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #7
05-02-2013 01:45 PM

The tunnels don't go very far beyond the Elephant and Castle. See my favourite map of the underground system:
http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/metro-...%3B+Castle

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #8
05-02-2013 02:44 PM

On another thread you said
"The tunnel already goes half way to Camberwell "

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
05-02-2013 03:45 PM

You are right, and nobody corrected me. Since then (2009) I have tried to find out a bit more about possible extension routes, and there is less evidence that a significant tunnel exists beyond E&C (which is already a good starting point).
One good source, other than that fantastic map, is District Dave's forum.
I apologise for any inaccuracies in my posting of 2009.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #10
05-02-2013 07:34 PM

I was told the reason they couln't go to Camberwell was that the Green was a plague pit. Though I've heard since that's another old wives tale as well.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
06-02-2013 11:55 AM

Jim Dowd:

"The tube system in south London, and certainly in south-east London, has been a joke for many years—largely because it does not exist. In the latter days of the 19th century, the system was run by a cartel. The Southern Electric Company and the Metropolitan Railway, as they then were, decided that they would not encroach on each other's territory, which is one reason why the tube system never came very far south of the Thames. Elaborate hoaxes were devised. Reference was made to saturated sand that made tunnelling impossible, and God knows what else, but it was the commercial interests of the railway companies that largely dictated the layout of the London underground as it exists today. Fortunately, in more enlightened times we have adopted a more progressive view of improving transport in and around the capital."

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #12
19-03-2013 10:51 AM

After my question to Boris at People's Question Time in Catford last week, things have been moving forward on the Bakerloo line extension.

http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/6691

Quote:
Mayor of London Boris Johnson has apparently signalled his support for an extension of the Bakerloo line beyond Elephant & Castle.
...
The Labour council leader tweeted that Mr Johnson had replied "It's a deal" when asked to support the Bakerloo line extension.
....
Last week the Mayor indicated tentative support for the project at a People's Question Time event in Catford, despite advice from Transport for London officials that the sums don't add up.

"They have told me before that they do not think there is yet a good enough business case, and you can do more good by extending the trains on the overground service," said the Mayor.

"My hunch is that the extension of the Bakerloo line will come and it will be immensely beneficial."

Also speaking at People's Question Time, Lib Dem London Assembly member Caroline Pidgeon said: "I absolutely support the Bakerloo line extension.

"If you look at the map of London and see where all the investment is going – you've got Crossrail, Crossrail 2, Thameslink – South East London is once again the cinderella.

"We're not getting the services we need and it is absolutely right that we get the Bakerloo line extension.

"The business case ... is there and we need the boroughs in this area working together cross-party to put that case to the Government and to the Mayor so we get the funding for this vital extension that is so desperately needed."

The Green Party's Darren Johnson AM agreed that a Bakerloo line extension should be an "absolute priority" for Transport for London.

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Novels


Posts: 83
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #13
19-03-2013 01:21 PM

There was an article yesterday on the Evening Standard about the Bakerloo Line being extended to Lewisham.

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #14
19-03-2013 02:55 PM

More in the Evening Standard today
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/bo...40510.html

Quote:
Boris Johnson today raised hopes of extending the Bakerloo line further into south-east London by describing it as a £2?billion project whose “time has come”.

The Mayor confirmed his wish to take the line from Elephant and Castle to Camberwell and Peckham and probably overground to Bromley after pressure from Labour-run Southwark council.

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steveb


Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #15
25-03-2013 05:47 PM

Quote:
The Mayor confirmed his wish to take the line from Elephant and Castle to Camberwell and Peckham and probably overground to Bromley


Having just traveled on an overground train from Elephant & Castle to Peckham, which was going on to Bromley, I'm afraid I can't get very excited about this. Boris playing to the gallery, as usual.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #16
26-03-2013 12:43 PM

Underground would be better as it would allow new stations to be bulit and the new line would not be restricted to existing routes.

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
27-03-2013 10:50 PM

From Mayor's Question Time on 20th March 2013:

Quote:
Bakerloo line extension
Question No: 814 / 2013
Darren Johnson
The popularity of the London Overground in south east London demonstrates the demand that exists for better transport links between central and south east London. Can you update me on the work TfL have done on options to extend the Bakerloo line and can you confirm whether TfL are developing a timetable to take these proposals forward?

Written response from the Mayor

I am committed to carry out a further review of the potential for a southern extension of the Bakerloo line in my Transport Strategy and I am keen to progress this as quickly as possible. TfL has already completed a strategic assessment of a range of potential transport schemes for south-east London. The culmination of this work was the South-East London Rail Access Study, which identified a possible corridor for a future extension from Elephant & Castle to Hayes via Lewisham, amongst other schemes, as being the most closely aligned with the objectives of the Transport Strategy. However, further analysis is needed before any firm proposal can be developed and funding would need to be secured for the scheme.

TfL is doing a piece of work with the London borough of Southwark to look in detail at what development would be needed around the route to both justify the economic case for the extension and fund it.

(provided from the East Dulwich Forum. Bolding is all by me)

I hope that Lewisham Council will also be involved in this development work, following on from their previous options report, as this is important to Lewisham as well as Southwark.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,347
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #18
02-04-2013 06:44 AM

Would it not be easier and cheaper to extend the East London Line from New Cross along the existing track to Hayes?

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michael


Posts: 3,196
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #19
02-04-2013 08:37 AM

Quote:
Would it not be easier and cheaper to extend the East London Line from New Cross along the existing track to Hayes?

I was thinking the same thing. I suspect there would be some issues with trains switching from one line to another and using an already congested set of tracks and junctions, but I'm sure there are ways this could work (and cheaper than a new tunnel from Elephant and Castle).

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #20
02-04-2013 10:16 AM

Quote:
Would it not be easier and cheaper to extend the East London Line from New Cross along the existing track to Hayes?


If the objective was to re-route the Hayes service then yes, surely much cheaper. Any tube extension surely has to tick a couple of boxes:

1. Improve service to poorly connected areas;
2. Relieve congestion, especially in the central area

Re-routing the Hayes line would do neither of these things but would instead annoy a lot of Hayes commuters who have fast links to the London Bridge/West End/City now. Unless you propose augmenting the existing service with a route via the Overground in which case this would probably exacerbate congestion at Lewisham.

AFAICT, the only reason Hayes is mooted as a southern destination is because, past Lewisham at least, the route is not crossed by any others so service frequency could be reliable to tube standard. The reason why the Bakerloo is ripe for extension is because it is the only deep tube line with spare capacity.

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