Horniman Museum and Gardens
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vipes
Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
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22-02-2008 05:12 PM
Without being elitist it is only a Cafe! If it was setting itself up as a Bistro or a Fine Dining club then I would agree with you but it's a bog standard cafe in a museum.
Had coffee in their on Fri and found it pleasant enough.
Perhaps "stellar" is too strong a term, conjuring up 3 Michelin star standards and all that but why should it be "bog standard"? The museum's not. Its a jewel. I'm just suggesting its cafe should be recognised for similar qualities to the museum - expense not being one of them.
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Londondrz
Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
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22-02-2008 05:19 PM
Perhaps "stellar" is too strong a term, conjuring up 3 Michelin star standards and all that but why should it be "bog standard"? The museum's not. Its a jewel. I'm just suggesting its cafe should be recognised for similar qualities to the museum - expense not being one of them.
True but then the museum needs to make it's money somewhere I suppose. Mind you I just spent ?32 on 6 lattes in the City so by comparrison it's good value.
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roz
Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
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23-02-2008 12:52 PM
Its a wasted opportunity both to provide good food and to make money, given the excellent location and cafe decor which is really nice. I sent back a lasagne last week as it was really diabolical. Even if free it would have been lousy value.
It should not be too difficult to make decent sandwiches or basic lunches - the cafe in Dulwich Park does a good job and people know that at least their lunch will be edible. Why put up with c**p. The French wouldn't.
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brian
Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
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23-02-2008 03:15 PM
I too have not been happy with this cafe. The Lemon Grove much more classy.
My main complaint is it despite the prices fare not up market and usually children running amok.
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vipes
Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
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23-02-2008 08:07 PM
Yes, the majority of what they serve appears to be reheated by microwave. When they tendered out to the folk running the cafe the museum managers clearly did not make a decision based on the quality of the food they would serve or they'd surely have sued. I suspect in a rare moment of disregard for attention to detail they put profit ahead of their public.
Give them their due though the staff are incredibly child-tolerant and the place is always clean.
The food is equivalent in price and quality to the average motorway service station. It is not befitting and it's nice to know I'm not alone in thinking it. If there's a consensus view on this thread I'll email the Horniman with a link.
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bigjulie
Posts: 68
Joined: Apr 2005
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23-02-2008 10:47 PM
the children running amok should stick to the pubs..
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seeformiles
Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
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26-02-2008 08:18 PM
yeah but the manager is handsome and charming (if he's still working there?) so I don't mind. )
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Butterfield8
Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2008
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26-02-2008 09:16 PM
Yes, the majority of what they serve appears to be reheated by microwave. When they tendered out to the folk running the cafe the museum managers clearly did not make a decision based on the quality of the food they would serve or they'd surely have sued. I suspect in a rare moment of disregard for attention to detail they put profit ahead of their public.
Give them their due though the staff are incredibly child-tolerant and the place is always clean.
The food is equivalent in price and quality to the average motorway service station. It is not befitting and it's nice to know I'm not alone in thinking it. If there's a consensus view on this thread I'll email the Horniman with a link.
Oh!! Oh!! Oh!!! steady on Vipes!!! motorway service station!!!! i don't think so!!!
The cafe is a great place i take my kids there all the time we always eat there and the food is fine as im not expecting 5 star!!! like Londondrz said its a cafe!!! and a really nice one at that!
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vipes
Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
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26-02-2008 11:27 PM
I'm not suggesting it should be 5 star Butterfield8. As I thought I'd made pretty clear...
I'm just suggesting its cafe should be recognised for similar qualities to the museum - expense not being one of them.
My ire was fuelled having spent ?7 on a bottle of a (never-heard-of-it-brand) mineral water, a tuna (soggy) baguette and a (processed) ham and (rubber) cheese (stale) sandwich.
I'm sorry, but using the term "fine" to describe the food suggests to me that even you concede the food is little more than acceptable. There are precedents for superior food at equivalent prices in countless park and high street cafes within a 2 mile radius of the Horniman - one within a five minute walk.
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brian
Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
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27-02-2008 09:16 AM
Mineral water. Should have asked for tap water.think of the environment
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Butterfield8
Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2008
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27-02-2008 11:58 AM
I'm sorry, but using the term "fine" to describe the food suggests to me that even you concede the food is little more than acceptable. There are precedents for superior food at equivalent prices in countless park and high street cafes within a 2 mile radius of the Horniman - one within a five minute walk.
When i say "fine" i mean really fine ,i certainly DO NOT concede the food is little more than acceptable, the bottom line is if you are really not happy with the place, simple! don't go there!!!
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vipes
Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
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27-02-2008 02:09 PM
if you are really not happy with the place, simple! don't go there!!!
Thanks for the advice Butterfield8. And for those who don't like drivers coming the wrong way down Manor Mount, I assume simple, don't walk on Manor Mount. And for those who don't like the look of an ugly looking planning application, I assume simple, stop looking at it. And for those who are unhappy about dog muck on the pavements, I assume simple, don't walk on pavements.
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Butterfield8
Posts: 5
Joined: Feb 2008
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27-02-2008 02:51 PM
LOLOL!! I think our conversation is at an end!!!!!!!!!!!!
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vipes
Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
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28-02-2008 03:26 PM
Not sure what LOLOL stands for.
The implication in your suggestion was that the solution to not liking something should be to stop doing it. This is a forum - an assembly for open discussion. Applying your logic would mean we're left with bikes to sell and and people posting to say they slept through an earthquake. The main point of a community forum like this, surely, is to seek change where there's consensus that it would benefit the majority.
I feel, as Roz and Brian do, that better food at the Horniman is desirable. You and Londonrz don't. 3 to 2 is not a majority that would mean much to those who could do anything about it. So I won't try. Phew.
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shzl400
Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
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28-02-2008 03:59 PM
I've never had a problem with the food at the Horniman Cafe - but then you can't go far wrong with a cup of tea, cartons of drink, muffins and ice creams. I wouldn't have thought it would be a venue for a main meal and this may be where it is perceived to be going wrong. It should stick to cafe-type food - cakes, sandwiches, maybe salads, maybe paninis etc. but not go for hot meals.
As regards price, I'd say it compares very favourably with the sort of prices you might pay in town and I don't begrudge the Horniman a bit of crosss-subsidy, as it is a great FREE museum!
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ruthb
Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 2007
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28-02-2008 04:21 PM
The only experience I have had of eating at the Horniman was absolutely superb - but then it was my wedding and a catering co were in charge...our guests couldn't believe how wonderful the food was! I guess it wouldn't be cost effective to get a local caterer involved with the food on a daily basis at the Horniman?
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Dylan
Posts: 58
Joined: Jun 2007
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03-03-2008 06:17 PM
I doubt if the Museum make any money out of the cafe the same with the shop they rent out the space, have always found the staff
really great they take the trouble to get to know regulars its very
child friendly you can always sit in the Conservatory if you can't stand the noise
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seeformiles
Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
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03-03-2008 08:26 PM
Brian does raise a valid point. One again no one is allowed to say that some parents do let their children race around the cafe like it's a playground. I stopped going there after a few near misses after kids ran into my legs and nearly tripped me up while I was carrying trays of hot drinks. No apologies from the parents and no attempt to control their children. Had I dropped the tray on them I would've been pilloried and run out of town. This isn't an excuse to have a go at FH parents - I just think it's fair to let people make their observations.
You're right about one thing - the Horniman Cafe staff are incredibly tolerant.
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davyj1
Posts: 11
Joined: Mar 2008
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05-03-2008 11:21 PM
I think this thread highlights an inexplicable characteristic of the British, that when it comes to the catering services people here seem only too ready to pay through the nose for food that most other nationalities would never accept.
Coming back to London after spending some time in Australia or NZ or the US to name a few it's just embarrassing what places generally get away with here and the amazing thing is that everyone seems happy to pay for it. London truly is the rip-off capital of the world and unfortunately as long as people intend to carry on paying joke prices for re-heated, tasteless, substandard food then it will carry on that way and we will rightfully be the 'catering laughing stock' of the world.
Just about any other country you go to there is suddenly so much more choice and value and care about the catering whether it's a corner cafe or a city centre foodhall.
I know I'm expanding the discussion a bit here from the Horniman Cafe but i just wish people here would demand better quality and value from the catering services and not be so willing to be ripped off for things like hot chocolate that usually tastes like milk and dishwater.
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vipes
Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
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06-03-2008 10:10 AM
Yes. It really does take a trip abroad (with exceptions) to realise how high our tolerance is for rubbish food at this level of establishment. The quality of the food sold in the Horniman cafe and its (sometimes passionate) defence on this thread perhaps epitomise this national forbearance.
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