Nice to see another interesting debate raging at last , now the Pools have been settled. It was otherwise getting a little boring, n'est-ce pas?

Can we mention the Big Issue seller was at the Jerk day?














Only kidding

I have a meeting booked with the Director of the Horniman Museum for the beginning of September to discuss a variety of issues, most importantly the ?1m revamp of the Gardens for which the Horniman is currently bidding.

I will make sure that the issue of parking is raised and will report back to the forum. I was going to raise parking anyway relating to the year round problems associated with coaches parking on Sydenham Rise, but it is clear that large events such as Jerk Cookout, need more parking and transportation planning.

Londondrz:

I repeat: "I am not in any way suggesting that the issues are not real ones..."

I would ask also how many of the people voting actually attended. I can vouch for Michael, because I saw him there behind the stall.

We walked from the Honor Oak end of the hill, where there was no traffic/parking problems as all, but were nearly mown down several times as we got closer to the Horniman by people desperate to park. There seemed little good humour....

I think the cook-out was a victim of its own success - I didn't enjoy it as much as I might have done because it was far too crowded and there were huge queues at all the food stalls. I'm sure there would have been a different outcome, if it had been raining! The upper level by the bandstand was a bit more civilised, but the grass above it was absolutely chocka. There were loads of marshalls, but I didn't see any of them really doing very much, except for the two patrolling the african garden (ironically, almost deserted!) who told my six-year old off for - very gently - touching the plants!

The marshalls, as someone has already suggested, should have been on the roads outside. For future years, I agree with many of the suggestons already made:

1. Get the police to make all nearby residential roads no parking - using the sort of bollards that they use on football match days;

2. Stress in the publicity that the parking that is normally available to the Horniman museum visitor is liable to be severely stressed when 8-10,000 people all turn up at the same time (not even the addition of the few hundred spaces at Perry Vale and Sainsbury's would make much of a difference) and advise public transport

3. Have Marshalls outside the gardens - along Honor Oak Road, Lordship Lane and at both train stations to direct people.

4. Have extra bins for chicken detritus outside the gardens, at bus stops & stations.

5. I think they could make a lot more of the entertainment - the music on the bandstand was good, but there didn't seem to be much going on at the main stage. Also, I wasn't very impressed by quality of the stalls (FHS excluded, of course!)

6. Involve the museum more - it was relatively quiet as soon as you got past the immediate area of the cook out.

7. I agree that all the local area should be flyered a) to publicise the event to local people who might want to go and b) to set out what measures for parking/security are planned.

Speaking of security, I've not heard of any complaints in this regard, which is very pleasing (e.g. compared to Lambeth Country Show where there was a knifing), so I should think we should all be very pleased that such a large event went off smoothly and grateful that we don't have anything worse that irate parkers to moan about.

Sorry, but if all residential roads were no parking for this events, where are us locals supposed to park? Or is it envisaged that all residents get permits for the day? Please explain. And can we get back into our roads if we go out for the day?

Well on the security issue, it's only a matter of time....and before anyone suggests race AGAIN! it's all about too many people vying for space in an unsuitably small area - and in today's world, what are the chances of some nutter amoungst the 10,000 or so visitors having a knife or worse? Lets face it, it wasnt the Womans Institute Cake making competition was it?

On the controlled traffic issue, you'd need clampers and police to ensure people didnt just ride rough shod over blocked roads. Local people would need some kind of permit or proof of address so they could pass through the barricades. It would require serious policing as there were plenty of people on Sunday who didnt give a dam about local residents or anyone else for that matter, parking on pavements, dangerously perched on corners, double yellows and blocking drive ways. As someone on this board has already said it only takes a few JERKS to start an argument and the next thing you know you've got trouble, which we could all do without.

Over crowding in the park didnt make for a great day either.

Time to move this to a bigger venue. What's the harm in that? The Hornimans is still a great space for smaller events such as the Carols, plant and book sale, bangla Indian day, Forest Hill day etc.

It's all very well for people who were not affected by the traffic/people to say 'It's only one day a year' but if this day is truely a large community event appealling beyond the boundaries of FH, then why not move it to a more suitable location? Seems those who want to keep it in FH are acting rather selfishly.

Lots of good suggestions as to how things can be improved traffic-wise but really, if residents are forwarned, is it that difficult to organise one Sunday a year without your car? Selfish? No, I'm actually thinking of what's best for Forest Hill, not whether I can get my car out without hassle because I absolutey *must* drive somehere on the one Sunday in the year where it might be a little trickier than usual, and where there might be some chicken bones chucked around the place which are cleaned up soon enough.

Incidentally, in the hour I was there, there were at least three acts on the main stage, and the queues at the stalls were minimal. I guess I just got lucky. It was very pleasant indeed.

Here's to the Cookout remaining with improvements as mentioned.

So we have to be a prisoner in our own homes for a day - or move out of town - while 10,000 non locals get in their cars and decend on the Hornimans. And why, when the event could be relocated somewhere that would better suit the numbers of vistors? It's not the end of FH or the Hornimans if this event is moved.

Can someone tell me how this event benefits Forest Hill? Do local businesses see an increase in revenues? If the event is to remain at the Horniman the organisers should be responsible for the costs associated with security/marshalling.

As an aside class is often cited whenever there is a heated discussion on this forum, why is it acceptable to stereotype people by class but not colour or nationality?

As an aid to the inverted snobs out there, where someone lives does not determine their class.

That's a very good point Smiler. Most people got back into their cards and drove home, others trotted off to the bus stops and train station. Shops being shut on a Sunday, only Sainsburys might have seen an increase in sales - probably in booze. I didnt see any huge numbers piling into the local restuarants or pubs afterwards. Perhaps the event should be reclassified as a local restaurant day instead - where the Kafe La, Tse, lemon Grove, serve up their wares and compete for a local award!

Not sure where the class thing has come in here. Although on another tack, casually linking knife crime and the cookout is more than slightly dodgy.

As to the benefits to Forest Hill? Well, for sure I know that the road between the station and Horniman was constantly full of people, so if only a few popped in to any of the shops there, that would be a massive benefit to Forest Hill in itself. I'm afraid I don't have individual figures of sales increases. I'd be amazed if business was down, though, wouldn't you?

Importantly, as an event increasing in popularity, it acts as great PR for Forest Hill. And I think Forest Hill needs a bit of good PR.

And yes, can't people be happy with having 364 days of the year with full car use, and one day a year where they might be slightly inconvenienced and have to use the train or come back a bit later in the day, if that means 10,000 people get pleasure from coming to Forest Hill? Most of this is all just real nimbyism cos it puts people out momentarily. Read the Sundays, get the train to somewhere nice. Or...now here's a thought...go to the cookout and have a nice afternoon tasting stuff you wouldn't normally taste and listening to music you wouldn't normally listen to.

NM, how do you know what food I eat and the music I listen too?

I am not bothered about being able to use a car on one Sunday a year, but I am bothered about being abused and threatened by those using their cars.

I wasnt casuallylinking knife crime and cookout. I was explicitly talking about personal safety and the risk of uncontrolled crowds. It's not my fault that it was the Cookout that proved so popular!! Why is the mention of knife crime so surprising? I wake up every morning and there's hardly a day when someone hasnt been stabbed in London. Are you telling me that people dont have knives today? and that the possibility of trouble isnt real when you are talking about 10,000 people at an event without any form of screening? I think you are deluded.

And I doubt that the shops would have been packed - it was a Sunday when nothing much is open.

Was there any knife crime at the cookout? Was there any more crime than you'd expect with a big bunch of people anywhere in London? Not that I know. So your comments are without cause. You link the threat of knife crime to this *specific* event you don't want to exists cos it stops you parking for a day - you do this in order to suggest it *specifically* is a problem. That's dodgy and rather cheap. The same amount of people in Peckham would offer the same amount of risk and you'd be happy to have the 'threat' of knife crime there.

Smiler, again, get things in proportion: it's one day a year, and road rage comes at you from all angles in London.

I'm constantly amazed by the delicate souls we have on this forum. A parping horn and a few chicken scraps are enough to send you into apoplexy.

Mr. shzl400 asks me to point out that the Horniman Museum probably charged the organisers a mint (and Michael, I wonder if you could ask the director when you meet him just how much? And if not, why not), which helps to support the brilliant FREE museum that we all benefit from and bask in the reflected glory of for the remaining 364 days a year, right on our doorstep.

Have you actually read what I said? My concern is with safety - that uncontrolled crowds can bring trouble, frankly wherever you are. I see the risk of problems increasing when you hold an event that is inappropriate for the number of people attending it. Regardless of whether I want to use my car or not, my interest is with safety - I very nearly got mowed down on Sunday. I'm very glad this was a peaceful event and may it remain so. However, I fear next year the numbers could increase and then who knows? Why should my concerns be considered cheap and dodgy? Obviously I am just tax paying plankton.

A parping horn and a few chicken scraps, ever heard the saying "thin end of the wedge" and I don't mean the potato variety(jerk or not)

I just don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, that's all. Let's look at managing it better first. You try being anywhere in London where there's a busy event, and you'll get big traffic problems.

On a wider basis, I think the links with the Horniman and Forest Hill generally could be improved, and this event, and the 'crisis' in numbers, could be the start of such improved co-operation. We should be helping each other to prosper here, not jettisoning a success story.

Agree with almost all your suggestions shzl400. Please advise mr shzl that as a publicly funded, and free museum the Horniman is prevented from charging organisers "a mint"...probably not entitled to profit at all. I really think that our community is very misinformed in this respect.

The Director has been a woman for at least the last 8 years!