Not to forget the pollution caused by all those cars. Not very green was it? As this event draws a bigger crowd than just the local community who could otherwise walk (especially on such a lovely day!), I dont see why suggesting Peckham Rye as an alternmative venue should be seen as anything other than common sense. It was clear from last years crowds this was getting huge. OK, Peckham is not in Lewisham, but it is near by, would be just as easy to get to, has space for parking, is a known venue for large events (circus, fun fair etc). I take offence with the comment suggesting that I wanted to 'shove' it there and also the implied racism.

Some suggestions, in the hope that someone from the Horniman, the Jerk Cookout itself, the Council, the local police or whoever else might be relevant, might see them:

Encouraging Public Transport Use/Parking
Yes, everyone should come by bus - but since this is not going to happen until the oil runs out....

1) Couldn't some sort of voucher for something free (eg: one child meal) be organised solely for those who come by public transport? I don't know exactly how this would work in the era of the electronically-read Oyster (as opposed to the easily-presentable bus or train ticket), but there must some way.
2) Quite a lot of people there seemed to have come over from Clapham/Tooting and other points South-West. There is a train that runs round from Victoria, through stations around there, to London Bridge, stopping here. This should be highly publicised.
3) A shuttle-bus could be run on an hourly basis from the station up the hill for those who need it (young families, disabled, elderly etc). Or, it could be run from the Perry Vale car-park to encourage use of that.
4) Or how about a park-and-ride scheme, from somewhere a bit further out, to spread the parking sites?
5) Could Sainsbury's be persuaded to put aside half (not all - understand people need this for shopping) their car park for guest's use for free?
6) Publicity, publicity, publicity - of car park sites which are not residential streets, of public transport routes, of road routes into and out of the area other than Honor Oak road AND a large print request for consideration of local residents in both parking and driving behaviour. Roads which are not suitable for parking or are to be coned off should also be highlighted, to dissaude drivers from going to them in the first place, to help avoid queues of traffic going round and round and jamming up the roads because of it.

Traffic

1) We get warnings of gas/water works and things like Pride or the marathon via temporary yellow AA boards - could we not have some of those put up around Forest Hill S.Circular, Honor Oak and Forest Hill roads for a couple of weeks before the event, warning of heavy traffic and delays expected, so that random through-traffic can avoid the area if possible, and residents know what to expect? (Those of them who missed the banner up along the Horniman Gardens railings for the week or so before this year's event)
2) The stewards for the event were very good about giving those entering the park leaflets with a site map: could they not do the same when people are exiting, with a leaflet reminding people of the available routes out, and again, a reminder to have consideration for local residents and patience about traffic queues (with the aim of avoiding bad-tempered 3-point turns blocking roads and making the traffic worse).

I don't think I implied racism, but rather ' implied' that some people in the cold light of day , on such a unforgiving media as the internet, might construe it that way. Sorry for any offence caused.
Personally not even sure that PR would be big enough now! Perhaps Blythe Hill Fields/ Ladywell Fields/Mountsfield Park/Crystal Palace Park/Brockwell Park/Burgess Park? If the event is really becoming mega then somewhere a bit more central ie Battersea Park might even be better and with better transport links.

I see what you mean Roz - sad that people might twist things though!

Glad we both agree a bigger venue is needed.

By all means manage it, but don't move it. You don't move the Notting Hill Carnival cos it's too busy for the streets of Notthing Hill. You manage it better. Just my opinion.

But I bet the people who live in Notting Hill would rather it was moved. These events are great when they are small, but once they become too big for the original location, it's time to move on.
It not easy to manage large events in appropriate places. Remember Hornimans is a garden not a park!

I still think what the event brings to Forest Hill outweights the problems that some residents have one day a year. Manage it better by all means, though

I have long been in favour of moving the Notting Hill carnival to Hyde Park, but the scale of the event is completely different. Carnival closes down every street in a large area of West London for 4-5 days and it attracts millions of people to an area of London simply not built for events of this size - that is what Hyde Park and Crystal Palace are for.

Jerk Cook Out still remains a much smaller event than carnival (under 1% of the people that attend carnival). Rather than trying to move it out of Forest Hill we should be finding ways to make it work better and turn it into a Forest Hill event.

As well as addressing parking issues we can pro-actively encourage people to use public transport and to park further from Horniman. For example a steel band outside the station, welcoming people to the area and encouraging people to park in the Perry Vale and Sainsburys car parks, knowing that they will immediately be at the start of the festivities. This would also benefit local businesses by spreading the money coming in from the event across the area. The park was just about at capacity yesterday, by organising some extra attractions across Forest Hill we could reduce the overcrowding by spreading out people better.

I tend to agree that its as much an organisiational issue as an overcrowding one. Something like this probably needs a group of willing volunteers to act on stuff like publicity, and be at stations to give advice/directions etc

Before yesterday and perhaps if I didn't live on the lower slopes of the Horniman I would have agreed 100% with keeping it in FH for economic reasons based on last years event which we attended however I can see few traffic management strategies working as given the likely volume attending, people being people will still use their cars rather than buses or trains ( assuming that the trains are running properly on Sundays).

We've also just discovered that passing pedestrians have been using our dustbins for their rubbish inc half eaten jerk chicken just chucked in so have had to bag it all up to contain the smell of half eaten food and move stuff around to make room for our own rubbish. I suppose we are lucky they didn't just chuck stuff into the garden but why should we have to be so inconvenienced by what is largely a commercial enterprise run for profit?
Sorry, but my vote is for it to be moved elsewhere and for the Horniman staff wake up to their community responsibilities.

Michael: There are specific historic reasons why Notting Hill Carnival stays (and should stay) where it is - around the Carnival as a positive response to, and commemoration of, the Notting Hill Riots.

There is no such reason for keeping the Jerk Cookout in Forest Hill - so if it has to move, it has to move....... But let's at least give it a couple of goes at trying to manage the problem before making the decision to see the glass as half empty and give up on it. It's a great event, which is really good to have on our doorstep. Personally, I hate the idea of having to trudge over to Battersea for it. And I wonder how many Forest Hillers who have attended and enjoyed something they otherwise wouldn't bother with, just to see what the fuss is about, would do so? The Horniman's community responsibilities also include that of showing us all a good time! (F'nah, F'nar, eh Nevermodern/Cellar Door?)

Roz. I completely agree with your comments.

Two points,

Firstly strong letters of complaint to Horniman Gardens and Museum.

Secondly this was a money making event, someone made a "mint" from yesterday with no regard for the local community.

Horniman gardens was at saturation point yesterday as I walked through, people were more interested in queing up for chicken than stepping aside to let people walk through. Even flower beds had to be "fenced off" to protect them.

I felt sorry for the two very young pc's standing on the corner of Horniman Drive and Westwood park. They looked like they were just out of college and with no senior officers visible either.

I felt even more sorry for the residents on Westwoork Park, Tewkesbury Avenue, Horniman Drive, both Crescents and Ringmore Rise who had to put up with the noise, traffic and general commotion on a nice sunny Sunday afternoon. Cars were parked nose to tail, dangerously on sharp bends and up one side of Brenchley gardens, and Netherby and Canonbie Roads were also saturated.

So as to the solution, sorry but it needs moving, so why not onto Peckham Rye, with more than enough space and plenty of parking opportunities, like even on the Rye itself.

Some nice pictures:

http://londonist.com/2009/08/in_pictures...erk_ch.php

I have to say that although the traffic issues were not great and the parking was a little iffy it all seems to have passed off OK.

We deffo need more traffic police (do they exist any more or have they all been replaced by cameras?) and bigger sign posts directing people to available parking and useage of public transport.

Signs asking people to put their rubbish in the rubbish bins would be nice, it seems the ground around the area was fairly covered in wrappers etc.

Finally, the nice lady in the Nissan Micra who tried to park on Waldenshaw Road could do with a few parking lessons, anyone fancy chipping in a few quid for lessons

Our drive was blocked all day too by some kind considerate person, so I am glad to see it wasn't just me suffering.

I don't think they should necessarily move it from the Horniman, but they could at least warn local residents as I had no idea it was happening and would have gone out for the day if I had known so that I didn't have to listen to cars honking all day outside on Honor Oak Road.

Interestingly one of the cars who blocked our driveway just backed into another car behind them when they were leaving without a second glance and drove off...nice!

Yes, it was crowded, but I don't think this necessarily think this means it's too big for Horniman Gardens, as the event itself was pretty good natured. For instance, last year, I went to this:

http://www.westdean.org.uk/Garden/News%2...iesta.aspx

The area of the gardens given over to The Chilli Festival was about the same size as Horniman Gardens - apart from the fact that half of it was a walled vegetable garden with greenhouses. I have no idea how many people attended, but it was pretty crowded. There were a large number of food and produce stalls, and chilli-plant stalls which took up more room than the Jerk stalls do. The queue for the toilets, never mind for the food stalls, was a sight to behold! But everyone still managed to enjoy themselves...
The only thing the place had which Horniman doesn't was ample parking. I think I've made it clear in previous posts that I think the parking and traffic management need sorting.

If in the future, the Jerk Cookout management feel that they can take the event up a level, and need a larger space for extra stalls/crowds etc, I would be very sad to see it leave, but would wish them the best of luck.

However, please can those most angry about it try to be calm and rational about how you make your complaints.If there is to be a parting of the ways, let's try to ensure it is an amicable one. It would be really sad if, when asked by other event organisers about their experience of using Horniman Gardens, the Jerk Cookout Management's response were to be "Oh God... don't do it! The locals are really stroppy and they chased us out after a few years...". Forest Hill has so much potential, and the last thing we need is to get ourselves a rep as a Nightmare NIMBYland.

And Roz, gingernuts, dbboy: There is a practical way to help avoid problems next time. I will volunteer to be a traffic marshal if you will!

Yes, next year I'll definitely be at the top of my road with a 'no entry sign'......

Well, good for you, Roz! Nice to see someone prepared to do their bit

Although, in truth, I am slightly surprised to see your call for "community responsibility" translated into such a limited unilateral action, I will still be happy to help out with the moat and drawbridge if you will take on the role of explaining to the disgruntled residents of other nearby streets that it does take quite a lot of driveway to stable the high horse...

Note to other posters: I am not in any way suggesting that the issues are not real ones, that "Get off my land" is not a perfectly natural, valid initial reaction to them, or that everyone expressing concern is motivated by that particular reaction. Just that it would be nice if people were clear (at least in their own minds) about whether their primary concern is to find a solution that benefits the whole area or just their own little corner of it!

CM, I think you will find most people are happy with the Jerk Festival but not with the odd JERK who attends. In la la land everyone would arrive on cheap public transport and have a wonderful calm litter and violence free day and leave Forest Hill with a glowing feeling.

The reality is that a small number of people do not give a damb about other people and so will park where they damb well please and get shirty if you try and point out the error of there ways.

Roz and others have a point, it may only be one day but why should we have to put up with people behaving like JERKS even for one day?