Are we sure Sainsbury's still wants to come to HOP, given all the hassle and the absurd delay? The objectors are playing with fire if this process is dragged out any longer. Our high street is in terrible shape - and it's in no one's interests to block any form of investment at the moment. Hopefully, if we all turn up to the late August meeting, we can send a strong signal that people in this community want a local shop that sells fresh fruit and veg at a reasonable price. Put that meeting in your diary!

This post was last modified: 03-08-2012 10:37 PM by roadrummer.

Cheeky - you are not getting my point. I am capable of following your reasoning. No honestly, I am. And you know what, I've heard your arguments a thousand times as well now. Getting a little bit repetitive, too. You are keen on a SB on your doorstep and a cash machine that is within 30 seconds walking distance so that you are not inconvenienced by having to take a detour on your way to work. We get it.

So agree Tinkerbell. Can't understand why someone who can find nothing to buy on the high street needs money there!

Roll on the decision. My support is for Sainsbury's and for local shops who up their game and provide something unique. I will give both my money.

D.

You're right, what is your point Tinkerbell?

Mine is one of hoping to see an improved shopping experience for all local people, both in covenience and better choice, which in turn should help in a rejuvenation of our current sorry state of a highstreet, increasing footfall, visibilty and passing trade to all existing traders.

Have you tried sprinkling a bit of fairy dust on the parade, perhaps that will work the wonders it needs?

This post was last modified: 04-08-2012 07:11 PM by Cheeky.

I will be at the meeting in support for sainsbury's. I buy all my food near work and lug it home on the train from central London daily. I've had enough. I never visit honor oak high street anymore and I live a five minute walk away. I love the deli, the toy shop and hopscotch, but I only go about once a month at most. Haven't been to the high St for two months now. So awful I know, but I'd rather hang out in east dulwich where I can buy everything I need in one outing. The east dulwich co op makes that possible.

Cheeky, anyone with a viewpoint that differs from yours is clearly an idiot and cannot see the light. I understand. Contrary to what you may think, I, too would like to see HOP parade strive. But I have also seen plenty of data and research from similar locations in London to suggest that the planned SB store format is actually unlikely to increase business for the rest of the parade. And it is a parade of shops, not a high street. That is a fairly crucial difference, in terms of what effect the introduction of a large chain supermarket has on the competitive and pricing environment in HOP. I'd have absolutely no objections to a SB if we were in a high street. But we are not. Anyway, I rest my case, I have no interest in arguing here. Let's see what happens and if SB brings the salvation you clearly hope for.

This post was last modified: 05-08-2012 09:07 AM by Tinkerbell.

Bring on the salvation! It will make HOP a much more attractive place to live!

Tinkerbell, I can see that you've taken my post dated 03-08-2012 01:22 PM personally, this was not my intention, it was meerly a case of unfortunate timing, (I was writing my post the same time you posted yours (see times)). It's ok though, I have a thick skin, re your subsequent comments.

There are obviously two sides of the fence people sit on this long drawn out discussion of whether a Sainsbury's is a good idea for our Parade, High street, row of shops, whatever you want to call it (High street seems to be a popular one though); the side that I sit on (the pro's), and the other side (the against)

I've seem many a post providing a legitimate argument for, but still cannot see any decent argument against. Telling us to walk a bit further, get some exercise it'll do you good, get in your car and drive to Forest hill/New Cross to get your provisions doesn't really stand up to be honest. The competitve pricing argument also doesn't stand up as it has been discussed on here (and admitted by Sainsbury's themselves) that their prices are higher in these small local stores. Their strategy is one of convenience.

If anyone can provide evidence that a sainsbury's local entering a parade which is in decline and where close to half the units on that parade are already empty has had a negative impact on said parade/high street, (or at least provide a legitamte reason as to why they shouldn't come), then I promise i'll shut up.

..and from the Guardian, of all places..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/...generation


"Brand deserts – areas that lack the retail opportunities most of us take for granted – exist in the most deprived communities across the UK for a number of reasons. First, there is a rather patronising assumption about supermarkets, propagated by the well-intentioned but fundamentally naive middle classes. There are numerous cases of supermarkets being denied planning permission in poorer areas – despite the support of residents – because local authorities wanted to protect local businesses. That's all well and good, but we need to stop imposing our high-minded concerns on other people's lives. Children from disadvantaged backgrounds are 8% more likely than their wealthier peers to say that brands are important and 14% more likely to want brand-label clothing.

We might not like it, but the reality is that these brand deserts add to a sense of segregation and disenfranchisement that is keenly felt. The availability of affordable, recognisable retail brands on local high streets encourage a sense of pride in a local area and raise aspirations – we should be welcoming big retailers into deprived areas, not patronising residents with concerns about local produce."

Cheeky - i dont want you to shut up but just want to give you an example from West Kensington, since Sainsbury opened 5 shops closed down, before there were hardly any empty shops around the area, allthough i must say the shops in question did mainly offer the same products as Sainsbury (Neswagents and off licences) I a neither pro or contra Sainsburys, I just think its a question of what kind of a parade/highstreet you want. I think Sainsburys will be great for shopping in HOP but do think the rest of the parade will be more a dining out detination and Brocklley rise which is much better suited for shopping will get a few more independent shops. So, it might be best of both worlds, the rest of empty shops can then change to residential use and everyone is happy

While not denying there are people in our local area that are poor, this is not a deprived community as described in that article. A Sainsbury's Local here will mainly attract commuters who I am sure are their target. I am in favour of its opening. While there is support for local shops selling all the things we want such as meat, veg etc, the customer base does not seem to be there to back up those desires. Paradoxically, Sainsbury's may be a catalyst for other businesses if it causes more people to stop rather than streaming out of the station and straight home. We can only wait and see.

If anyone thinks that a Sainsbury's hurts local sellers they need not worry. Herne Hill has a little Sainsbury's and is going from strength to strength. It has a butchers, greengrocers (from before the Sainsbury's) and now has just started a weekly food market which is doing well!

We have recently purchased a house in HOP on the basis it is an "up and coming" area. Lewisham Council, please don't make a mockery of our decision to live here.

West Norwood has a long parade of shops, with a Tesco Metro, a Co-Op and a Sainsburys Local all within stones throw of each other..virtually all of the shops on that parade are occupied..

This post was last modified: 06-08-2012 01:49 PM by poolsneighbour.

Yes, butchers, deli's and all and West N is a long parade!

Hello. I live in HOP. I've followed this debate and still cannot begin to get my head round why anyone would want to preserve the right of the absolutely dreadful grocery stores on the parade to sell their yellowing, non-fresh, overpriced food. There is nowhere to buy any vegetables after 7pm! Or any proper bread! I've lived in four london boroughs. Every other high street from shepherds bush to wandsworth has a proper late night shop with ideally a free cash machine. It is a Good Thing. This is what the world can offer you now.

Mainly though the shops down there are empty. There are two empty curry houses here back to back - plus you haven't got any fresh fruit in the fridge! why would you not want someone to come in and solve both these problems in one go? Is there some kind of peculiar inverted snobbery I'm missing? Is it a blanket and unquestioning anti-corporation thing? It just seems totally self-defeating. Roll on Sainsbury's. Embrace the new world. Buy some fresh tomatoes at 9.30pm.

HOP is not Herne Hill (wealthier residents there) or West Norwood (proper High Street and travel hub) but a small parade of local shops. In the 20+ years I have lived here expectations have grown and various businesses have been tried and failed because the demand people voice does not always seem to materialise in practice. In a time of recession it surprises me that anyone would risk a business startup and I suspect most of us do not really grasp the amount of custom that is required to support a butcher, for example. If people drove around less, it might be different, and it is more convenient for many to buy all goods in one place i.e. a big supermarket. Sainsbury's in HOP will not be that but it will be a useful addition. It is surely not the sole responsibility of Lewisham Council to fulfil desires for HOP to 'come up', especially if that simply means we want our property prices to rise (I happen to think it's got quite a lot going for it already, though of course we would all like to see the shops thriving). That also depends on people contributing to their local area through our many community groups.

I agree with you, even in Herne Hill and West Dulwich it is difficult for these shops to get loads of customers it is clear to see, but big part of that is their opening times. Guess my point is for those that complain about SB is that SB itself does not affect them doing well if they have the capability to do well, they survive side by side perfectly well imho.

I am pleased to report that Lewisham planning have finally confirmed that the proposal is being reported to Committee on Thursday 30th August in the Civic Suite at LewishamTown Hall, Catford, SE6 at 7.30.