Hoona, I couldn't agree with you more.

There is Lidl point in complaining about a new supermarket. It won't be open Aldi and all night. Check-out the application now As-da planning committee will approve it soon.

Pilsen, I'm only too aware of this recession, which has pushed previous traders such as Linda at the pet shop and Mick at the White Wood Shop off the parade. No small reason was the costs of the premises themselves rising relentlessly regardless of local trading conditions, and this has to be a deterrent to potential new traders.
If we get a Sainsbury's, along with the undoubted benefits will come the likelihood of premises rentals and leases rising to match what Sainsbury's can afford, and we need to bear this in mind. I would want to be sure that traders such as Neroli and Jumping Bean along with the other food shops and newsagent would not suddenly find the cost of premises jumping as a result.
On the issue of bringing in business, look at Forest Hill. Even though it has had a big Sainsbury's there for a long time, which - according to the reasoning of other posters - should be bringing footfall to other shops, we've seen boom and bust in that shopping area for years regardless. All of this need to be thought through before spreading the welcome mat.

Can't comment on the pet shop but the reason White Wood shut would seem to be more to do with recession than premises costs. They were at least six months in arrears. An imponderable is whether enough footfall would have been generated by a Sainsbury's local to keep it open.

As for Forest Hill with its Sainsburys you need look no further than this thread for anecdotal evidence to support the notion that it generates footfall there too (post 194, thanks hoona).

Forest Hill is also, arguably, having a bit of a transformation. Lots of new businesses, local ones and prospects for others (even heard mention of a new deli and possibly even a butchers today). Though a new swimming pool and the Horniman must help, I do not find it credible that all this would be happening without Sainsbury's or a shop like it being present.

I am not an advocate of Sainsbury's btw and am not spreading the welcome mat. As mentioned before, if you have any inside info on a local business who could fill this gap in the market, then please say so. If not then this could be the parade's best option in a flat economy. The alternative is more closures through lack of business - that is surely far more of a deterrent for new traders than lease rates.

HOPcat, there are a large number of units empty due to the fact that rents are already too high, some of them have been empty for well over a year, no one is moving in as (I say again) the rents are too high. You are saying that a Sainsbury's coming would push rents up even further? How would this benefit the Landlords if no one will even take the units at the price they're already at? Your argument doesn't add up.

I think you said you attended the Council Meeting so you would know that The White Wood Shop fell well behind on their rent and the Landlord worked with them to come to some kind of agreement but to no avail. I fear you are clutching at straws with your argument against, especially after many comments posted on here justifying why Sainsbury's coming would be a good thing.

I would dearly love to spend my money on our highstreet and do try to as much as I can but i'm afraid there's just not enough on it to draw me there on a regular basis.

A quick follow up from the picture I posted earlier, I had another look at it and noticed something quite worrying, there's almost no one walking on it at 6 in the evening, shocking!!!!

Cheeky, You are logical but landlords of commercial properties often are not. Believe me, a lot of us have been asking why, when traders can't afford them, the owners of our parade still keep pushing the prices up. Answer comes there none.
Yes, I heard the explanations at the meeting over the White Wood shop but I am keeping an open mind on what really happened. I do not always believe what I hear at these meetings. Everybody is trying to put the best face on things, after all, and it is a bit of a PR exercise.
But I quite agree that reviving a shopping parade is not easy. If, however you are wondering why there's nobody walking on the parade at 6pm, that's probably because some of us are starting to knock an evening meal together from all the stuff we bought earlier locally, or during our once-a-week trip to the supermarkets, which we then froze or kept in the fridge. Not all of us buy food daily. Some of us may even be rooting in our gardens at that time, in between the showers. Then again, we may be with friends, or getting ready to go out later. This is a suburb, not central London.

any more news?

The latest is that Highways have had a full logistics plan from Sainsbury's and are still asking for further information regarding rubbish disposal. I am not sure that the rubbish from one big shop that is extremely well run is any different from three smaller ones but there we are.
I have been noticing more and more the large lorries that are delivering to the other grocers and it seems ridiculous that this is all being held up by matters that are clearly tried and tested in numerous small high street locations all over London. It is simply a commercial fact that the better the outlet in terms of product range and freshness the more deliveries it will require and the wider the choice for the consumer. HOPcat's village life sounds delightful but why should this have to have a bearing on how other members of the community have to live. I would comment further on the White Wood situation but if posters decide to call me a liar there seems little point.
The Committee now looks like being in July but then the Council had already said they were trying for June!
I will try to keep you informed.

Have to say that when we move to the area would be very good to have a Sainsburys. Have lived in West Hampstead, Herne Hill and West Dulwich, all of which have local deli's, butchers and green grocers co-existing with supermarkets quite happily in the same high street.

anybody have any news abut this!?

I have not heard any news, apart from being highly frustrated trying to buy some fresh meat in a rush for an unplanned BBQ from any of the local shops in HOP (either side of Brockley Rise) last Saturday. Gave up after the fourth or fifth shop selling the same old frozen stuff. Until a Sainsbury's or local butchers arrives I guess I will need to jump in the car to some place where the supply of goods in local shops meets the demands of the local community (unless everyone round here just loves that frozen burger taste as that is the only thing that currently seems to be on offer!!).

This post was last modified: 01-08-2012 08:56 PM by Mattya.

Mattya, the situation in HOP isn't quite as dramatic as you make it out to be in your comments.

You'd have been able to buy some fresh meat at Sainsbury's in Forest Hill, which is only down the road, or alternatively, if you're on the other side of HOP, Jay's Budgens also sells e.g. burgers and chicken (and not the frozen variety). And those of us who have access to a bike, bicycle or car can very easily get to the large Sainsbury's at Bell Green, which would have catered for pretty much any BBQ need.

I don't mind Sainsbury's but frankly, I'm not a fan of their meat. Some of it is so pumped full of water, it'll leak half a pint if you put it on the BBQ....

I know where those other places are and that they probably supply something resembling what I demand but unfortunately they are either in Forest Hill or Crofton Park not Honour Oak Park. I did not have time to head to these places on foot as time was of the essence. The bottom line was that when I stepped out of the door I chose not to go further afield and put some faith in my local row of shops (in Honour Oak Park) to supply what I demanded and was left feeling let down, dejected and, arguably most importantly, devoid of burgers! I am particularly a fan of Jay's Budgens but sadly only when I am passing through and would love to have an equivalent nearer to my home ASAP!

This post was last modified: 01-08-2012 09:47 PM by Mattya.

Also a walk down the back roads of Crofton Park would have lead you to Peter James the Butchers on Ewhurst Road who does fantastic fresh meat of all types.

I agree Peter James is an awesome butcher, well worth going down there. Although pricey compared to the big supermarkets the meats is fab. He is open on Weds, Thursday, Friday and Saturday until about 7.30pm I think.

Blimey, is it really too much to ask to get a place on our highstreet that sells fresh meat, fruit & veg. I know some people on here are trying to help but it really seems as though a lot of people have a 'why do we need that on the Parade' attitude.

Peter James agreed is fantastic but the amount of times i've been down there after work thinking it will be open, getting all the way down there only to find it closed, SO frustrating. Peter James is not a convenience store, it is however a place to buy great organic fresh meat.

I wanted to buy some tomoatoes on my way home last night, went into Brockley Supermarket only to find one shriveled up warm tomoato on sale, lovely.

We didn't have tomatoes in our salad yesterday evening.

...shall be giving my money to M&S London Bridge once again tonight.

Roll on that planning decision. West Dulwich and Herne Hill manages to keep a butchers open whilst having a Tesco's and Sainsbury's sure will will manage in HOP. We always used both.

I cant even believe this has been dragged out so long..its ridiculous!

I agree with the previous poster. It seems to be taking an eternity to make what should be a very straightforward decision (yes to Sainsbury's).