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Honor Oak Park Station Forecourt
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theplanner


Posts: 14
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #1
30-12-2010 06:33 PM

Anyone else think that the pavement in front of HOP station is dismally narrow? It's quite hard to negotiate people entering and leaving the station plus the smokers out the front when you've got a buggy.

I had a thought and wondered where to raise it, so I thought I'd put it out to SE23.......Perhaps the road could be reduced to one lane with a parking bay or two between the station and zebra crossing for pick up and drop off, enabling a nice big forecourt. Even better how about pedestrianising the whole station side of the road bridge, after all there are two lanes on the other side?

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kipya


Posts: 62
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #2
01-01-2011 12:11 PM

This is a seriously good idea. The twin lanes over the bridges are clearly not needed since either side of the bridges the traffic is squeezed into one lane or less (going up Honor Oak Park is often half a lane each way). The traffic problems on Honor Oak Park are due to parking up the hill and again down by the traffic lights. The two bridges do not ease the problem in any way.

A pick up point would be very civilised instead of the current practice which requires people to park on the pointless double yellow lines (except that, ironically, they provide a pick up point)

The raised 'kerb' is anti-pedestrian in practice, and your point about people with buggies or luggage having to negotiate the narrow space is correct. I cannot understand why station users should have to be so inconvenienced in order to provide a superfluous second traffic lane.

Pedestrianising the space outside the station would be excellent.

I went and had a look at the space after reading the posting by theplanner and the only problem I could see was the siting of the bus stop on the other bridge, which would stop the traffic if it was the only bridge used.

I think there is plenty to commend the idea, and not squeezing pedestrians would seem to be a reasonable starting point. THis might be worth raising with other very local groups like HOPRA or HENBO.

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ruthb


Posts: 63
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #3
03-01-2011 07:02 PM

what an excellent idea - I am often walking past the station on way back from the rec with buggy and it's always a squeeze. That pavement in the middle of the road seems like a terrible waste of space too.
I'm no expert but it does seem like a good point to raise...

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #4
04-01-2011 10:55 AM

I often walk by with a buggy and though sometime I have to wait for a couple of seconds to get by I hardly think the congestion outside the station requires the proposed changes.
Surely there are better things to spend scarce resources on than a few seconds (or even a minutes) delay going past a station.

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mrcee


Posts: 128
Joined: May 2010
Post: #5
04-01-2011 03:22 PM

Whilst I agree that in the current climate we need to allocate spend appropriately, I also think that maybe if potential revenue generation was submitted with this proposal it may have a better chance.

By increasing the forecourt we would be able to have a mini sunday market with a few stalls like the deli to get a small (never ending ;-) ) return on the initial costs.

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theplanner


Posts: 14
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #6
04-01-2011 08:42 PM

oh dear mljay, that's a bit of a dismissive response! The idea was a positive suggestion about improving the environment, improving pedestrian safety, potentially allowing space for traders like the recent excellent deli-in-a-tent and improving the pick up and drop off arrangements. Also it could be done very cheaply by just adding some paving and re-routing the traffic around the other side of the bridge.

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andrewr


Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #7
04-01-2011 09:07 PM

I don't want to pour too much cold water on this idea but, from Google Earth, it looks like the roadway on the uphill side is not much more than 6 meters wide. That wouldn't be enough for two buses to pass. I think it's clear from the Google Earth view that there are two separate bridges with a gap between them, so it's not just a question of rearranging the island. The rest of the road is wider than this and although parked cars narrow it there are now frequent gaps between the cars (as a result of yellow lines) which enable vehicles to pass. I'd think the uphill bridge is too long to rely on vehicles giving way before they enter the restriction.

Reducing the downhill bridge to a single lane would allow the footway to be widened but that's not likely to happen soon after the fairly recent works to put in the protective kerbs. BTW, I believe the kerbs are there to prevent vehicles ending up on the railway track rather than to discourage pedestrians!

Presumably the bridge on the station side was the original one and the other bridge was added more recently to get rid of a bottleneck. Anybody know when? I'd guess '60's since a pedestrian subway, now filled in, was incorporated, and such things were popular back then.

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #8
05-01-2011 02:08 PM

apologies for sounding dismissive.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
05-01-2011 02:15 PM

It would be expensive, but an alternative proposal would be to set the railway station further back building over the railway lines.

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andrewr


Posts: 296
Joined: May 2006
Post: #10
05-01-2011 07:51 PM

Sherwood - Are you suggesting that the station should be rebuilt on a new bridge further north so that the pavement could be made wider to ease life for people with buggies? I'd guess that people with buggies would probably prefer to see the money spent on raising the platform or lowering the track so that they could actually get on trains - or am I missing something?

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mljay


Posts: 80
Joined: Mar 2007
Post: #11
06-01-2011 10:28 AM

I'm with andrewr - or putting in lifts to access the platform.

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michael


Posts: 3,215
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #12
06-01-2011 11:18 AM

Why does the station side of the road need two lanes of traffic which double yellow lines, when there is only a single lane both before and after the bridge?

By reducing this road to a single lane of traffic, a slightly wider pavement could be installed outside the station. Not enough for market stalls, but a little wider for pedestrians on a narrow bit of pavement outside an increasingly busy station.

Widening a pavement is not a horribly expensive change if it is considered a useful change.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
06-01-2011 02:14 PM

Or they could build ramps.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #14
06-01-2011 03:37 PM

As I have also mentioned in another thread, I second the motion for ramps. These are part built already anyway and would IMO be better and cheaper than lifts. In fact the effort spent on putting in temporary stair access is probably comparable.

The idea of widening the pavement is also good, especially if it allowed space for pick up and drop down. Cars currently wait in crazy places (on junctions, zebra crossings) to meet people arriving at the station. A decent architect could probably devise something with the space available.

A general observation: we are paying, year on year, above inflation fare increases purportedly to pay for investment in infrastructure. I do not think it is constructive to shoot down ideas on the basis of imagined cost when they are being discussed on a forum.

To AndrewR: I wholeheartedly support your initiative to make it easier to get on or off the trains. The problem as I see it is actually to do with the camber of the track as it curves. I suspect it will be expensive to address, but as I mention above that is no reason not to push the idea.

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theplanner


Posts: 14
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #15
23-03-2011 10:31 PM

apparently lifts coming sometime in the next two years to HOP station.....now I just need some official support for my wider forecourt plans!!

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Tezzyd


Posts: 9
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #16
24-03-2011 07:44 PM

If you only had one lane, there would be nowhere to park the vehicles that are delivering the lift components or any other station improvments, and if a lorry or bus breaks down there it would be a total road block.

Also wouldn't it be contradictive to widen the pavement for better access then put a market there to clogg it up again.

I'm not having a dig this is just my thoughts.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
28-03-2011 08:11 AM

I think you would need to build a new railway station suspended over the railway lines set back from the road.

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