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Louise House
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Scorpion


Posts: 121
Joined: Nov 2005
Post: #1
08-08-2008 08:44 PM

I quickly passed by Louise House earlier tonight and noticed a yellow sign attached to a post on the pavement outside stating there was a "Goodbye Party" due to the buildings' up and coming demolition, for any past children/people who have attended there, this coming Monday 11th August 2008.

I did not get to read the whole sign unfortunately (I think there was a phone number on it and the time of the party was mentioned) but took it as given that Lousie House is definitely being demolished? Unsure

Sorry to not have the full information that was given on the poster, but maybe someone else who passes by, can fill in the blanks.

Regards

Sue

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eddy


Posts: 39
Joined: Jul 2008
Post: #2
08-08-2008 10:45 PM

the party is not for louise house as such, its for louise house early years centre which are the buildings in the garden area of louise house.
something else thats been there for donkeys years that will have to be pulled down to make way for the new pools.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #3
28-08-2008 04:55 PM

It seems there has been a lot of heated debate about this whole issue. [Chorus off: you don't say!]

I thought it would be interesting to provide an opportunity for all 1,695 forum members, aside from the vocal minority, with strong arguments either way, to give their opinion - totally anonymously!

The options are (and I hope I've covered all the bases here):
a) In favour of the listing of Louise House.
b) Not in favour and would like to see it de-listed.
c) No strong opinion either way.

I'm not going into the pros & cons here - they have been rehearsed at length on other threads.

PLEASE VOTE!! It's important that those who represent FH to the Council and/or EH know what local opinion REALLLY is, rather than just basing their representations on their own opinions.

________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________
Admin note: The poll was closed after almost a year on 19th August 2009. The results were: a) 58 b) 62 c) 13
________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #4
29-08-2008 02:50 PM

Only 62 voted so far. Please can more vote. So far de listing winning

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Dylan


Posts: 58
Joined: Jun 2007
Post: #5
29-08-2008 03:26 PM

delist we want a pool asap louise house and the existing pool
are no longer viable lets all move forward and get this new build underway

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #6
29-08-2008 03:28 PM

Dylan I agree but we need as many as possible to vote to see what all people who use this site think

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nasaroc


Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
Post: #7
29-08-2008 03:53 PM

I have to say that this vote seems crazy. It's very much like voting on what the weather is going to be like tomorrow. We simply don't have any control over the end result whatever we may think individually.

Louise House has already been listed. Despite the brave comments of a few on this forum, it simply isn't going to be delisted. To do this would require a judicial review and proof that in some way English Heritage has made a technical mistake in the way that they have made this judgement. EH are highly unlikely to have made such a technical error (they list buildings all the time - it's their job) and anyone wishing to take them to court should be prepared to lose a great deal of money.

What one earth is the point on voting for something that has already happened, isn't going to change and where we have no control??

The originator of this poll tells us that it's important that our council/EH know how we feel on this issue. Why? How is that going to help? This listing is done and it will not be rescinded.

Dylan is correct - let's move on and get the pools built.

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #8
29-08-2008 04:44 PM

Fair point. It now makes about the same sense as voting on "should Lewisham have made sure they painted the timber roof trusses at the old pool" (although it annoys me they didn't). A fait accompli, now, for better or worse...

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
29-08-2008 08:01 PM

Voting.

It's what we do in a democracy.

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Max


Posts: 59
Joined: Oct 2005
Post: #10
29-08-2008 08:45 PM

Yes, a fait accompli as I ever saw one, but there's no need of a judicial review to reverse it, planning consent can be given for listed buildings and polls like these can help.

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GavinStamp


Posts: 1
Joined: Aug 2008
Post: #11
29-08-2008 09:43 PM

Louise House has been listed as a building of architectural and/or historical importance, and rightly so. Forest Hill Pools ought also to be listed. Considering "de-listing" is pointless and a waste of time. With this listing, combined with the collapse of the property market making the proposal to build flats next to a new pool a non-starter, one might hope that Lewisham Council might at last see sense and recognise that the most economical as well as the most practical solution is to restore the existing pools that have been wilfully neglected for so long. The Dulwich Public Baths, a.k.a., the Dulwich Leisure Centre - slightly younger than the Forest Hill Pools - are listed and are to be refurbished by Southwark Council. So why not Forest Hill as well?

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #12
29-08-2008 10:09 PM

Lets see what happens when the documentation and appeal forms from EH arrives and those of us who are minded to can discuss and decide what to do and how to do it, probably in consultation with Council officers.

In response to earlier comments, there is nothing democratic about the listing process. Anyone can propose a building for listing and not for the purest of reasons either. Why should there not be consultation as there is with the statutory planning process?! It is outrageous that such a body can just press ahead with such decisions without considering the public interest in the round.

Clearly the prospect of delisting is ruffling certain quarters. The matter is most certainly not done and dusted and CAN be rescinded on appeal. Having spoken to EH I have to say there does seem something fishy about the speed at which this particular matter was dealt with. Almost rushed -through ,you might say. It will do no harm at the very least for an initial polite letter to the SoS of DCMS to ascertain the processes which were followed and to question why a ruling which seriously hampers public swimming provision in south London was allowed to be granted at the very time the Culture Secretary was in Bejing promoting the benefits of 2012 to ordinary Londoners- a point which attracted the Olympics to London in the first place.

The discussions about the merits and demerits of a combined sports and housing site fail to consider the one area of development that tends to thrive in a depressed housing market- housing associations which these days are using more sophisticated financial modelling to deal with changing market situations. It is/was therefore highly possible that decent values could be obtained for such grant funded development properties hence providing the necessary cross subsidy for any pools development.

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Satchers


Posts: 262
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #13
29-08-2008 11:57 PM

The listing process may not be democratic but it is undertaken by experts in their field following specialist research.

Just because a building is listed it doesn't mean it can't ever be demolished. It just means you have to apply to do it a part of the Planning process (which is supposed to be democratic). You have to have some very good reasons and proposals for a high quality replacement. The landowner also needs the political will to do it. I can't see how trying to overturn a Listing decision in the High Court is going to get us a pool any quicker!!

I am not yet convinced that a high quality leisure facility is not still possible on the site - with the retained Louise House - and I find it very frustrating that lots of people seem to have decided this is the case already.....

It's happened. Lets move forward and get a great leisure facility built for Forest Hill.

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #14
30-08-2008 07:10 AM

As I said before, those of us who feel strongly (and judging by the PM's and other communications I have received, there appear to be quite a few,) will be looking into the appeal process on Louise House, starting with asking some difficult questions of the Secretary of State regarding her Department's supposed dedication to using the London Olympics to benefit local people.

It also really wouldn't surprise me if an application to have the main pools building listed is already under way judging by some of the comments on this thread and recent actions of others.That would really scupper the prospect of a decent facility.

Granted listing does not necessarily mean demolition is impossible but the implications of this are yet to be revealed , and it does not hurt at this stage to register a protest- just like everyone else has apparently been doing in the so called public interest.

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Max


Posts: 59
Joined: Oct 2005
Post: #15
30-08-2008 07:47 AM

Satchers, my discontent at the listing of Louise House is not motivated by dislike of those buildings that, unremarkable as they are, don't offend my eyes.
It's because I don't think that Lewisham Council will to put ?11m of capital expenditure in a sport and leisure centre if a substantial part of those money then ends up in conservation.
Conservation of unremarkable buildings is not a priority of the Council. They just spent ?1m for the library and they feel that by doing that they've done enough conservation around Forest Hill for now, and if you try to see things from their point of view you'd think that they have some point there, after all they're really spoilt for choice as to where to spend some millions.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #16
30-08-2008 08:46 AM

Thanks, Sherwood, for your support. We hear all the time from the same people on this topic and the point of the poll was to see the opinions of those who nod silently in agreement with the various arguments, but are not heard.

A resounding vote in favour of either of the options would have given strength to those arguments and a clear steer on direction, which would have been helpful. However, the as it stands currently, it seems opinion is fairly evenly divided, which is just as interesting - and goes some way to explaining why this argument runs and runs!

All the more reason for those who haven't voted yet to do so - the more votes, the better the mandate and there might be a clear "winner", so that path can be pursued and we can move forwards. All the current situation is doing is holding up progress.

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
30-08-2008 09:32 AM

BTW, I'm not sure how its been perceived that a poll on this thread will give a mandate either way. The website membership is hardly representative of the local community. Any further action will be pursued regardless of the outcome of this poll as there are certainly enough of us.

The other issue that needs to be considered is what will actually happen to Louise House if it is not demolished and does not form part of the pool complex. Are our precious public funds now to be wasted on restoring this load of tat for an as yet undefined end use?

Off to read the recently arrived report from EH on the importance of honouring deceased Polish paediatricians in favour of providing modern facilities for the tax paying public....

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #18
30-08-2008 12:08 PM

Quote:
BTW, I'm not sure how its been perceived that a poll on this thread will give a mandate either way. The website membership is hardly representative of the local community. Any further action will be pursued regardless of the outcome of this poll as there are certainly enough of us.


So, tell me, Roz, by what authority are you on your own pursuing the de-listing issue? Who are the "us" that there are enough of?

As for this forum being representative, why should it not? Agreed that some members do not (or do not anymore) live in the area, but they still care enough about it to join the forum. And the number of members is more than the number of votes our elected local councillors got at the last election!

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #19
30-08-2008 12:10 PM

P.S. There is still also quite a large and long-standing local Polish community for you to upset as well....

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Geoff


Posts: 11
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #20
30-08-2008 01:02 PM

Well said SHZL400, couldn't have put it better myself.

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