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East London Line
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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #41
13-11-2007 05:32 PM

We have just heard back from TfL regarding the pricing of season tickets. Although no final decision on pricing has been made by the Mayor of London:

TfL Wrote:
I am able to say that there is no reason to expect that the point-to-point season tickets will be abolished and so it is likely that the current two tier system will remain in place.


I hope this reassures some people.

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Anyone else?


Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #42
23-11-2007 05:24 PM

blushingsnail Wrote:
From this morning's Metro newspaper:

"Meet the East London line managers"

"Passengers can find out more about the closure of the East London line at a series of 'meet the manager' events taking place this month."

"The line will be closing on Saturday, December 22, for redevelopment and passengers can get information on alternative transport arrangements and the new East London line extension."

"This week's events are:

Wednesday, November 14
Shadwell station, 7am-10am
Wapping station, 3.30pm-7pm

Thursday, November 15
Rotherhithe station, 7am-10am
Surrey Quays station, 3.30pm-7pm"


Did anyone go to the meet the ELL Managers thing?

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loca


Posts: 67
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #43
23-11-2007 05:43 PM

Yes I did talk to one of the managers, they said that we should let him know of any comments that we may have once the services has been closed, as he is having a meeting 3 months into the Closure. He will then be able to change the replacements services if needed.
So please email or call him on 0845 330 9880 or Customer.Services@tube.tfl.gov.uk

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seeformiles


Posts: 269
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #44
30-11-2007 03:07 AM

I have to travel to Shadwell fairly regularly and decided I'd probably try changing at Bank for the DLR. It looks quite a straightforward route, although I know Bank can be busy. I never find it quick to go via Lewisham - the traffic's bad even outside rush hour.

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leah


Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #45
19-12-2007 02:08 PM

thought this may be of interest to those who have been concerned about the train services from FH and HO in the future. Jim Dowd seems satisfied with an email he has received from Southern, saying that they haven't said that there will be a reduction in services into London Bridge, or no/fewer services to Victoria...

The text of his comment in the Commons is here:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?i...176#g766.0

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leah


Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #46
19-12-2007 02:10 PM

sorry - this link may be better:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id...-18a.766.0[/i]

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #47
19-12-2007 02:32 PM

Just 'cos they haven't said it yet, doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen!! Saying nothing at this stage leaves them free to say anything they like in the future.Cursing

Read on to the end of Jim Dowd's speech - he gets really steamed up about the Orange email thing....

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Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #48
19-12-2007 02:56 PM

shzl400 Wrote:
Just 'cos they haven't said it yet, doesn't mean it ain't gonna happen!! Saying nothing at this stage leaves them free to say anything they like in the future.Cursing

Read on to the end of Jim Dowd's speech - he gets really steamed up about the Orange email thing....


Yeah I read this. Good man Jim, let it all out.

Maybe he was personally affected by this Orange shambles hence the anger. Let's get him commuting on the trains and he might start getting steamed up about this isssue too.

I also liked the "one can go out on the Terrace at its (Orange's) expense". Jim, keep my London Bridge rail service and I'll buy you a beer just like Orange!

I've never seen http://www.theyworkforyou.com before but I think it's great. Thanks for the link

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #49
19-12-2007 07:00 PM

Jim Dowd refers to a letter from Network Rail in response to a series of emails, from Forest Hill Society and Sydenham Society members as well as other members of the public, which I shall reproduce below. I shall include my response in my next posting:

Dear Mr Abrahams,

Network Rail has some concerns about a number of factually incorrect comments about the South London RUS which are currently in circulation and which may be causing your members unnecessary worry.

Some of the issues which concern us, and which we would like to clarify are as follows:

1. It is not true to state that ?the draft RUS would result in a 25% cut in existing Sydenham Line peak period services? to London Bridge. The draft RUS proposals for December 2009 would in fact:

? Result in exactly the same number of trains as today from Sydenham/Forest Hill arriving at London Bridge between 0700 and 1000 on weekdays

? Result in an increase from today in the number of trains from Anerley, Penge West, Honor Oak Park and Brockley arriving at London Bridge between 0700 and 1000 on weekdays

2. It is not true to state that the draft RUS proposes an even greater cut in off-peak services from Sydenham to London Bridge.

? The draft RUS makes no comment whatsoever on the level of off-peak services to London Bridge

3. It is not true to state that the draft RUS proposes the ?loss of the loop-line service to Clapham Junction and Victoria?.

? The draft RUS makes no comment whatsoever about this service

? In the morning peak, as of today, there are no direct services running from Forest Hill/Sydenham to Victoria via Crystal Palace until 0908. Indeed, the first direct train to Crystal Palace itself is not until 0830. In 2010, across the entire morning peak period 0700-1000, there will be an East London Line train every 15 minutes from Forest Hill to Crystal Palace, where passengers will be able to change onto four trains each hour going from there to Victoria.

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #50
19-12-2007 07:02 PM

michael Wrote:
I shall include my response in my next posting:

Dear Mr Stephenson,

Thank you for your e-mail of 13 December. I am replying on behalf of the Forest Hill Society and the Sydenham Society.

You refer to factually incorrect comments that are currently circulating about the South London RUS ? with the implication that they emanate from ourselves - and you ask that we pass on to our members the clarification contained in your e-mail. We disagree that we have made incorrect comments.

We respond to your various points below, but we should first say that an absence of comment in the draft RUS on a particular matter does not mean that no changes are planned and does not prevent us from drawing conclusions about Network Rail?s intentions based on previous document produced by Network Rail.

Sydenham/Forest Hill services running into London Bridge ? am peak (7.00-10.00)

You say that the draft RUS proposes no change in the am peak service. However, page 112 of the draft RUS ? Assessment of Option 2.3 ? refers to a reduction of 2 trains per hour (tph) in the London Bridge service. The subsequent discussion of Option 2.3 does not suggest removal of that proposal.

Page 203 of the RUS shows 6 tph into London Bridge (compared with the present 8 tph shown on page 202).

The Network Rail feasibility study (published on Network Rail?s website) shows a current Sydenham/Forest Hill service of 20 trains over the am peak, and a planned service of 16.

If we have misunderstood matters then so too have the London Borough of Lewisham who in their comments on the draft RUS have, we understand, referred to a proposed reduction of services into London Bridge.

Sydenham/Forest Hill services running into London Bridge ? off peak (10.00 17.00)

You say that the draft RUS offers no comment on these services. At the same time you do not say what is the proposed off-peak services once the East London Line is operational.

The Network Rail feasibility study referred to above shows a current service of 43 trains over the off peak period and a much reduced planned service of 28 trains. Off peak specification may be a matter primarily for the franchising authority but the feasibility study is Network Rail?s. Unless you can now assure us otherwise, we must continue to assume that Network Rail intend (or would not object to) a cut of the order identified in the feasibility study.

Sydenham/Forest Hill services running into London Bridge ? pm peak (17.00 ? 20.00)

You do not comment on these services. Nevertheless, the feasibility study shows a current service level of 18 trains over the peak period and a much reduced planned service of 12 trains.

London Bridge to Forest Hill/Sydenham services ? 5.00-24.00

You do not comment on these services. However, the Network Rail feasibility study shows a current daily service of 96 trains and a planned daily service, again reduced, of 77 trains. Hence the concerns that we have expressed.

Loop line to Clapham Junction and Victoria via Forest Hill and Sydenham

We agree with you that the RUS says nothing about this line. We consider it significant that the RUS does not actively propose retention of the line in its present form whilst it does talk about other off-peak services on the same line, particularly the off-peak service to Charing Cross discussed on page 176 of the RUS, which it concludes should not continue past 2009.

Although we note your comment about Sydenham Line passengers (from 2010 onwards) being able to pick up Victoria bound services by changing at Crystal Palace, we do not regard that as a wholly adequate substitute for the current off-peak direct service. Your reference to the Crystal Palace connection simply confirms our view that Network Rail?s intention is to remove the direct service.


Conclusion

Our principal concern is with what we see as proposed reductions in the existing level of services, particularly peak as well as off peak, to and from London Bridge, for Sydenham/Forest Hill passengers. If you are able to provide us with an unequivocal assurance, in writing, that there are no proposals to reduce the existing service levels, and that they will in fact continue after 2010, then we will be most pleased to convey this news to our members.

Likewise, if you can provide a similarly firm assurance that there is no intention to withdraw the existing direct service to Victoria from 2010 onwards then we will happily pass that on.

Many thanks for giving me the opportunity to put these concerns directly to you via email. We would of course be very happy to meet with you, early in the New Year, to try and reconcile our different understandings. That may be a far better way forward than by correspondence.

May I also take this opportunity to thank Jim Dowd for once again raising this issue in parliament and referring to some of the specific points you made in your email. http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debate/?id...-18a.766.0

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Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #51
19-12-2007 08:44 PM

Sorry I'm a little out of the loop here. Am I right in assuming that Mr Abrahams is a worried SE23 resident and Mr Abrahams is a network rail man?

If so Michael/ Mr Abrahams thank you for actually taking this issue directly to them. Where can I get a copy of the draft South London RUS?

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Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #52
19-12-2007 08:51 PM

Anyone else? Wrote:
Sorry I'm a little out of the loop here. Am I right in assuming that Mr Abrahams is a worried SE23 resident and Mr Abrahams is a network rail man?

If so Michael/ Mr Abrahams thank you for actually taking this issue directly to them. Where can I get a copy of the draft South London RUS?


Mr Stephenson is a network rail man?

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robwinton


Posts: 335
Joined: Jun 2006
Post: #53
19-12-2007 11:26 PM

Yes, michael (aka Mr Abrahams) is a concerned local resident (and Chair of the Forest Hill Society) and he has been in correspondence with Mr Stephenson of Network Rail.

I think you'll find more links to the various documents in the history/archive of this site, and on the Forest Hill Society site at http://www.foresthillsociety.com

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #54
20-12-2007 11:09 AM

Anyone else? Wrote:
Where can I get a copy of the draft South London RUS?


The South London RUS is available on Network Rail's website:
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirec...2895&root=

There are various documents and some are extremely long.

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ambient


Posts: 85
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #55
20-12-2007 02:20 PM

Incidentally, there was a taste of things to come today as the ELL was suspended from New Cross Gate today at around 9:20am. A relatively "quiet" and "comfortable" train from FH was then predicatably transformed into a squash-fest at NXG.

In January, I suspect that the first reaction to the ELL closure that most people will have is to use the rail services to London Bridge because it'll take some time to adjust to the various replacement bus services. Should be fun!

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #56
20-12-2007 10:31 PM

Oh dear!
A lot of people get out at New Cross Gate station.
It will be a squash from there in future!

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Foresters


Posts: 207
Joined: May 2006
Post: #57
20-12-2007 11:20 PM

I'm not sure if this has been answered before but, at the moment, the change to the ELL at NXG involves crossing the tracks via the ticket office, a route which gets really packed. Is this going to remain the same when the new ELL is in full swing?

Are the two lines going to split at this point (meaning that the platform arrangement would remain the same) - and share track before NXG (heading into London)?

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,360
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #58
20-12-2007 11:39 PM

I think people will wait for ELL trains and not need to change at New Cross Gate.
There will be flyover taking the ELL trains from the far left track over other tracks to the existing ELL tracks (I think).

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Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #59
21-12-2007 12:55 PM

Sherwood Wrote:
I think people will wait for ELL trains and not need to change at New Cross Gate.
There will be flyover taking the ELL trains from the far left track over other tracks to the existing ELL tracks (I think).



Extract taken from page 152 of the South London RUS

"Assessment of Option 12.3
Calls in fast line services at New Cross Gate
Concept
This option is based on providing an interchange between main line services and the ELL at New Cross Gate.
Operational analysis
Platforms at New Cross Gate are only 8 car length, so only a limited
number of main line services could call, and very few at the height
of the peak.
Additional stops would have a significant adverse impact on main line
capacity, leading to a reduction in frequency during the peak.
Infrastructure required
None is assumed.
Passenger impact
This option would provide new improved journey opportunities from main line destinations to East London. However, it would increase journey times on these services to London Bridge.

In addition, ELL services at New Cross Gate are predicted to be very full at this point. This option would increase overcrowding on these services.
In the reverse direction in the evening peak, main line services will already be too full to accommodate passengers changing from the ELL.

Freight impact
This option would have no impact on freight operators.
Financial and economic analysis
No further work has been undertaken to appraise this option.
Link to other options There are dependencies with Options 2, 4, 13, 14, 15 and 16
Conclusion
It is recommended that this option is not progressed, due to insufficient capacity being available and the risk of increasing crowding levels on ELL services."

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse%20do...tation.pdf

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Foresters


Posts: 207
Joined: May 2006
Post: #60
21-12-2007 06:48 PM

Dream scenario would be to have the fast trains stopping at Forest Hill then straight to LBG (or, better still Charing Cross!) - and the same on the way back.

I believe Forest Hill is one of the busiest stations (reference to this elsewhere - not sure where) and can only become more so with new flats going up locally, so this would relieve a lot of the overcrowding from stops after FOH.

I did say dream.

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