Who would have guessed it?
Of the 10 most overcrowded bus services in London, only one is NOT located in South East London. This data is taken from a GLA report on bus services in the capital.
It is no surprise that other sectors on London which have an underground system do not have such problems with their buses. But it also shows that investment in bus services has been completely inadequate for South London compared to the rest of London.
I have marked Forest Hill on the map with a small green dot and it is clear that the problems are almost all on the routes through Forest Hill and Catford. This is the best case I have ever seen for most appropriate route for the Bakerloo line extension, basically heading for Forest Hill or Catford and then out a little further to Crystal Palace or Bromley.
However in the next 30-130 years that it will take to get the Bakerloo line, the least that TfL could do is address why South East London is so poorly served by buses, and how they intend to address this inequality of transport provision in the capital.
This post was last modified: 31-10-2013 01:35 PM by michael.
they have missed off the P4 and 122 from that map!
edited to add: to be fair there are plenty of bus routes through our area (in my experience - aside from the absolutely appalling service from Bell Green Sainsbury's to Forest Hill which I only ever did twice as it was so bad). I think part of the problem is the amount of private vehicles on the road- it's fine where we have dedicated bus lanes but so many people have given up on public transport and use cars they are a BIG problem, Another massive problem I would say is the face that the South Circular goes round our area and carries so much commercial traffic.
If we had completely dedicated bus lanes on all routes it would keep the buses moving more efficiently and more buses could be run to cope with the amount of passengers
I hope tfl come up with some imaginative solutions soon as currently travelling by bus can be a deeply depressing experience. I will never drive as long as I live in London and am a long term public transport user and it has definitely got more crowded over the past 20 years
This post was last modified: 31-10-2013 02:07 PM by Poppy9560.
If we had completely dedicated bus lanes on all routes it would keep the buses moving more efficiently and more buses could be run to cope with the amount of passengers
But all other traffic would be stationary!
Take the P4 which runs mainly on secondary roads. I don't think the good folks of Dulwich Village would want most of their high street taken up with bus lanes. I think the problem lies with the controllers - it's forever being turned back halfway through its route, with long waits between buses and then two turn up right behind each other. Surely, they must be able to run it more efficiently.
And I also belive that many of the existing bus lanes are totally redundant - take the one at the Brockley end of Adelaide Avenue - most buses actually move out into the right hand lane, out of the bus lane, to turn right at the junction.
I agree about the 122. It's so bad during the morning school run - late, overcrowded, goes whizzing by the bus stop without stopping because there are too many people on board, then the next one is late, overcrowded...
As a result, I drive my daughter to school, adding yet another vehicle to the roads because of a lousy bus service.
I wonder whether there is also an issue about speaking up and complaining.
When an underground line is faulty the entire population is up in arms, but when a bus line is diverted or faulty you do not really hear about it.
I once rang up TfL to complain about a poor service. It cost me a fortune on my mobile phone and the person at the other end of the line said I should be more patient... another bus would come soon...
I did enjoy reading this sentence in the report: "The inability to board a bus because it is too full or to have to stand once on board could adversely affect bus customer satisfaction."
London Assembly Member Darren Johnson, who is on the committee, said: "News that nine out of the 10 most crowded bus routes in London run along a corridor through Camberwell, Peckham, Forest Hill and Catford will come as no surprise to residents of south east London.
"Unlike other parts of London this is an area poorly served by the tube and this route is is exactly where the Bakerloo line should be extended beneath London’s packed streets. I will continue to lobby hard for the Mayor to get moving on plans for this desperately-needed extension.
"Given that this would take at least 30 years to complete, TfL need to invest right now in bus services in the south east of the capital so that the discomfort and difficulty is reduced for passengers travelling today.”
"Given that this would take at least 30 years to complete, TfL need to invest right now in bus services in the south east of the capital..."
Stupid question of the week: why would it take 30 years? They built the Channel Tunnel in a fraction of that time. (But don't let my stupid question get in the way of investment in SE London buses!)
This post was last modified: 12-11-2013 10:52 PM by Mr_Numbers.
Fair point. Presumably it would take 23 years to make their minds up and find some money and then 7 years to build it. My reading of it was that it would take 30 years to actually build but your interpretation is obviously right. (I must stop posting comments at midnight when I'm clearly incapable of rational thought...)
This post was last modified: 13-11-2013 07:58 AM by Mr_Numbers.
For comparison Crossrail project really got going in 2001, with legislation in 2005 and construction started in 2009 and some services will begin in 2015.
Bakerloo line would be a little more complicated to start running services as they would need to fit with existing services, but this shouldn't cause more than a couple of years delay.
If there was the political will to push forward with the Bakerloo line extension it could be running in 15 years (2030). But with other projects such as Crossrail 2 and HS2 sucking up all the transport planning and investment, it seems unlikely that anything would move forward significantly in the next 5 years.
The most significant words in Darren Johnson's quote is "...should be extended beneath London’s packed streets". This is exactly what I have been arguing for the last few years, rather than extending the Bakerloo line on existing rail tracks.
From this point forward I shall be referring to the overcrowded 176 as the Bakerloo Extension Bus Replacement Service!
Maybe we're missing a trick, here. HS2 is being pushed as a way of getting to Birmingham more quickly. Surely the real justification is that it enables people to get OUT of Birmingham more quickly. These poor unfortunates then need to get to somewhere desirable with all due haste so a Bakerloo extension to Forest Hill is a natural spin-off.
One can dream...
Actually I'm determined to do a bit more than dream. But my view is that the Bakerloo line must intersect with the Forest Hill train line, either at Forest Hill, Honor Oak Park, or New Cross Gate. By bringing it underground the southern of those options makes more sense. Connecting with existing transport hubs makes a lot of sense, and Peckham Rye, Catford, and to a lesser extent Forest Hill are the three big ones in SE London.
Bakerloo extension should be the 176 route or the 63 route or something in between. But any extension to South East London would be of benefit to all in SE London.
Maybe he's a very effective 'behind the scenes' operator and I'm unfairly disparaging him. But I've never seen any evidence that he's done very much at all, truth be told. In fact, a local newspaper reporter once came to my door with a photograph and asked, "Do you know this man?" It was Jim Dowd and they were doing a story along the lines of how his own constituents don't know who he is. And I thought the Forest Hill Society had at least as big a role to play in getting the East London Line but my memory may be playing tricks on me.
However, it is clearly all to the good that anyone with any influence impresses upon the Mayor that the Paddington extension gets funding so I humbly apologise if my snarly comment about our MP appeared ungrateful for your efforts, Sherwood.
Have no political axe to grind over this but sorry, I think that is inaccurate. The ELLX was a Ken Livingstone initiative but Boris was quite happy to take the credit for it. He has delivered a new bus though. :-)
I think it is great that any politicians are supporting the Bakerloo extension. It needs the backing of TfL and of the DfT, so hopefully Jim Dowd will also be lobbying the minister, and perhaps he can secure one of his fine Adjournment Debates on the matter in parliament.
Well done to Sherwood for writing to Jim Dowd. It is helpful to get more politicians on board this excellent scheme.
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They built the Channel Tunnel in a fraction of that time. (But don't let my stupid question get in the way of investment in SE London buses!)
