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East London Line
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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #21
31-10-2007 04:42 PM

It is not more frquent if you are going to London Bridge. At present 6 trains per hour go to London Bridge.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #22
31-10-2007 07:46 PM

But it won't take *that* much longer to get to London Bridge via Canada Water on the ELX, will it? Not according to TFL's journey planner anyway.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #23
31-10-2007 08:42 PM

But I usually want to get to Charing Cross!
I already have to change at London Bridge.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #24
31-10-2007 09:13 PM

Take your point. Sad

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nasaroc


Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
Post: #25
07-11-2007 01:14 PM

Never Modern ? you say that it won?t take that much longer to travel to London Bridge via Canada Water on the ELL than travelling by ?overground? directly to LB.

How do you figure that out?

The overground journey from New Cross Gate to LB takes six minutes. The underground journey changing at Canada Water takes 12 minutes. This does not include the time taken to change to the Jubilee Line at CW? If that takes, say, 5 minutes, then the total journey by underground is 17 minutes as opposed to 6 minutes by overground.

We need to maintain ALL our existing services to London Bridge. It's where the vast majority of people travelling from this area want to go to. Using the ELL to travel to London Bridge via Canada Water is more time consuming and infinitely more unpleasant and crowded.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #26
07-11-2007 05:22 PM

From Forest Hill to London Bridge direct by train: 16 minutes

Forest Hill to Nx Gate by rail 7 mins plus Nxg to London Bridge by tube: 12mintes. If you add 5 minutes to that for changing at Canada Water, a total journey of 24 minutes. Phew. a whopping eight minutes longer to get to work in exchange for 12 trains an hour in total instead of, what, the current six? London Bridge travel isn't really the problem. I'm much more concerned about threats to direct trains into CX and Victoria, to be honest.

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nasaroc


Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
Post: #27
07-11-2007 07:08 PM

Can't say I agree with your timings Never Modern. It simply isn't going to be possible to get to LB (and I'm talking about gettting to street level at LB) via the ELL in only eight minutes longer than a direct train. I've tested this out by getting off at NXG and using this method. You also spend 50% of the journey running up and down escalators and stairs at LB and CW - and trying to stuff yourself onto tightly packed Jubilee Line trains during the rush hour at CW.

Who on earth is going to choose this method of getting to LB when there are direct trains?

You say you are more concerned about direct trains to Victoria and CX and that the cuts to LB services are of less concern. Unfortunately, you simply cannot divorce one from the other. The loop line trains are the very ones that are likely to be cut to reduce the number of trains by two per hour.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #28
07-11-2007 09:35 PM

If you can get to London Bridge, you just go to platform 6 and take the next train to Charing Cross.
Don't get on the Bedford train or you go to Blackfriars!

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Simon


Posts: 12
Joined: Jul 2005
Post: #29
08-11-2007 10:47 AM

nasaroc Wrote:
We need to maintain ALL our existing services to London Bridge. It's where the vast majority of people travelling from this area want to go to.


I'm not so sure about that. The rear of the train seems to empty at NXG most mornings, presumably with people changing onto the ELL. What seems to get lost on these pages is that there are people who's lives are going to be made easier.

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Foresters


Posts: 207
Joined: May 2006
Post: #30
08-11-2007 11:06 AM

Does anyone know if there's any definitive word on the following:

- The evening twice-an-hour Caterham train from Charing Cross stopping at Forest Hill (I know it's possible to change at London Bridge, but this is not pleasant and does not feel too safe in the later hours)?
- The fast to (first stop) Forest Hill rush hour service? (the number of passengers getting off at Forest Hill suggests that more fast trains should make their first stop at Forest Hill).

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nasaroc


Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
Post: #31
08-11-2007 12:02 PM

Foresters - If the RUS is implemented as proposed, there will be no direct trains from Charing Cross - all trains to FH will start at LB. There will be no "express" trains or trains stopping at Forest Hill only (All trains - ELL and LB trains - will stop at every station along the line.

Hope this answers your questions.

By the way, I fully welcome the ELL. It is great news for our area. The ELL will hugely improve our railway. It will make life easier for a great number of people. It just shouldn't come at the cost (for the majority of travellers who want to travel to LB) of our existing services.

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hilltopgeneral


Posts: 156
Joined: Mar 2004
Post: #32
08-11-2007 12:20 PM

You are stll labouring under the delusion that the ELR is primarily intended to benefit existing residents of Honor Oak, Forest Hill and Sydenham. It isn't. Any benefits are largely incidental.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #33
08-11-2007 02:01 PM

The 1725, 1755 and 1825 services from LB are the best thing about FH. One stop, no messing. Losing them, and their morning counterparts (as c**p as the 0835 is) will be a real shame.

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roz


Posts: 1,793
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #34
08-11-2007 02:49 PM

Everyone needs to have a closer look at the RUS, and the excellent research and hard work carried out by the Forest Hill Society, and then decide whether further action, comment, lobbying/fighting back, is required. The FHS has had a positive impact and things are a little better however not all rail users are in the FHS and hence there may be a range of views as to whether the proposals and reasons given stack up and whether or not more can be achieved.

Personally I think we should be fighting tooth and nail to preserve our existing , direct services but this may require compromises in other areas. Unfortunately I also think we are very far down the line as implementation goes ( no pun intended).

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Deanos


Posts: 14
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #35
08-11-2007 03:26 PM

Is there not a question of cost in this as well. At the moment I, and I suspect many others, have a rail only ticket to London Terminals. When the inevitable cuts to services come into effect, will my ticket be valid on the overground trains to NX Gate or will I have to pay extra to have access to all services though FH and HOP? Additionally the above suggestion to get the tube to London Bridge from NX Gate assumes that the users have a travelcard that includes the tube at almost double the cost of my current season ticket. Obviously, if services are cut, the price of season tickets won't be reduced to reflect fewer trains.

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #36
08-11-2007 05:24 PM

Interesting point Deanos. An annual 'train fare only' ticket from FH is ?666, and a 3-zone travelcard is ?1,096. Who do we need to approach to find out if the 'train fare only' tickets will still be available after the ELL starts?

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Deanos


Posts: 14
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #37
08-11-2007 05:27 PM

I expect that the ticket will still be available, but presumably there will be fewer services that it can be used on. Unfortunately I've got no idea who to ask!!

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nasaroc


Posts: 144
Joined: Jun 2005
Post: #38
09-11-2007 10:37 AM

Oyster Cards will be introduced onto this line by the end of 2008. This means integration of tube, bus and rail fares. Surely in this situation there will be no "rail only" season tickets or "tube only" season ticket. We are in zone 3. If you want to travel to zone 1 either by train, bus or tube, you get on that mode of transport and pay the fare using the card. Annual season tickets are stored on the card.

Incidentally, the ELL is totally within zone 2, so those travelling to, for example, Canary Wharf or Shoreditch High Street will not have to pay the extra cost (currently 60p single) of travelling into or through zone 1.

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Theotherbrian


Posts: 86
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #39
12-11-2007 05:40 PM

I use the ELL as part of my journey from HOP to Gants Hill on the Central Line. Getting up at 06.00 I haven't got the stamina to make that 05.30 to battle with the P4 and DLR or the replacement 'bus service btween NX Gate and Canada Water. Sadly, I will add myself to the daily grind through the nightmare known as the Blackwall Tunnel. Yes I know it's a bad option but other than winning the Lottery and being able to chuck it all in, I have to be pragmatic and grit my teeth!

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #40
12-11-2007 06:00 PM

From this morning's Metro newspaper:

"Meet the East London line managers"

"Passengers can find out more about the closure of the East London line at a series of 'meet the manager' events taking place this month."

"The line will be closing on Saturday, December 22, for redevelopment and passengers can get information on alternative transport arrangements and the new East London line extension."

"This week's events are:

Wednesday, November 14
Shadwell station, 7am-10am
Wapping station, 3.30pm-7pm

Thursday, November 15
Rotherhithe station, 7am-10am
Surrey Quays station, 3.30pm-7pm"

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