SE23 Forum

There certainly seem to be thousands of unread copies available from what I see out on the roads

One problem is that the Highway Code (while remaining the same in essentials) does get updated so if you passed your test a while ago, you may not be entirely up to speed any longer.

My mother, who because I cycle regularly, feels that she gives cyclists a decent amount of room and looks out for them more. However, over the weekend, I discovered that she's not entirely au fait with the rules around ASLs (they didn't exist until relatively recently). Another of her friends thought that unless there was already a cyclist in there, it was perfectly all right to drive into it and stop at the front line.

Most drivers, cyclists and pedestrians are considerate of one another. But there are a sizeable minority of each who aren't and I suspect even providing them with a free copy of the Highway Code wouldn't make them any more likely to read (let along follow) it.

Applespider,

You make a good point about the the perceived use of certain road management systems. Rather than simply changing the physical aspects of the road, the messaging is just as important - billboards/radio etc.

[attachment=1029]

Attached is today's result of a motorcyclist who didn't appear to have read her highway code

Cripes!

That's pretty nasty.. I hope you are alright

Ditto. Hope you didn't lose any teeth or have a deep cut.

I agree with the earlier comment that a sizeable minority of every type of road user is irresponsible.

With motorcyclists I have noticed three distinct groups who seem to take the don't care/won't care approach.

The pizza delivery mopeds. Not usually a problem in the morning.

The young office worker who thinks that riding a Vespa is a lifestyle choice that is wholly unconnected with the need to follow the rules of the road.

The hardened biker who has so far managed to avoid a life threatening smash.

Of course bikers can be the innocent victims of other road users including cyclists who pull out without looking.

I also see plenty of responsible motorcylists like the guy with dreadlocks who has been commuting from Forest Hill and overtaking me on his way for many years.

Agreed. I've been commuting to/from London by motorcycle for 41 years and have noticed more cyclists pulling out without looking.

Personally, I couldn't ride a motorcycle in London without mirrors - and I can't understand why more cyclists don't fit one.

The 'lifesaver' look that motorcyclists are taught is also known to cyclists who do the Bikeability training or read Cyclecraft.

Adding mirrors to the bike would be yet another thing on already cluttered handlebars (bell, two light brackets, reflector) and yet another thing to be nicked when the bike is left unattended. In addition, we're generally not going as far as motorised traffic so there is a little more time to check behind ourselves and monitor what's happening. And our helmets tend to be lighter and easier to keep peripheral vision.

It does astound me sometimes though how many don't seem to bother when moving out from vehicles. I was taught MSM when learning to drive and follow the same on the bike when in traffic with a lifesaver replacing the mirror. And if I'm attempting to move across a lane of traffic, it's MS (further mirror to check motorist has seen signal) and M!

exactly. certainly not tarring all motorcyclists with the same brush (although that said I'm amazed it's taken so long for me to be taken out by one).

teeth are still in but I suspect two of them wont be for much longer and after a day in tommy's having a plastic surgeon put my lip back together I'm in more pain than just after my face slammed into the tarmac.

me too, probably annoys me more than anything else I experience on the roads when one cyclist knowingly endangers another cyclist by doing something like that. I've been riding the same route to work and back for 10 years and the deterioration of the road conduct of all types of road users is all too obvious.

That looks nasty GWS.

I ended up in Chelsea and Westmintser when a cyclist decided to ride across the road without looking and I was on my motorcycle.

Just goes to prove that muppets use all form of transport.

A bit like the lady who walked into a street light this morning because her Blackberry was more important than looking where she was going.

Actually, reflecting on what I said before, i suppose it should come as no surprise that I'm noticing more cyclists pulling out without looking, when you consider that there are now significantly more cyclists commuting to work - it's all relative isn't it?

I've simply added it to my list of "things to anticipate" when riding my motorcycle.

Lifesavers are grilled into us when doing motorcycle training although you would think they would be something we would do anyway. You wouldnt cross a busy road without looking to see what was coming but it appears to be OK to change lanes without doing so.

I generally favour the idea of less government rather than more but I wonder if the time hasn't come for a compulsory bicycle competency test?

That wouldn't be great for children so I suppose children without a licence could be allowed on the roads if they were accompanied by a licence holder. Alternatively you might only require cyclists to have a licence if they were over 17.

Periodic retesting for all holders of driving licences would also raise standards.

Would that be a good idea?

I would say yes to both.

On the second, however, I wouldn't do it periodically. I would do it when the driver gets so many points. I think they're the ones who need it.

Well, you'd think so but quite a few pedestrians seem to manage it on a regular basis on my commute. Yesterday morning, I watched one bloke at Stockwell, walk into the road when the crossing man was red and when the traffic approached from the other side of the junction, decided to stand still imitate a traffic island while various cars attempted to go around him.

As a regular cyclist, it wouldn't bother me taking a test. But it's another barrier/expense to actually getting people cycling which would be a bad thing. I do really wish they'd promote the (often free) cycle training more when people buy bikes (especially on Cycle to Work schemes) since it really would make a huge difference to how people ride.[/quote]

For any one interested, free cycle training for Lewisham residents can be booked through the link on this page:
http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/tr...cling.aspx

How might we nudge (oh dear, I can't believe that I've just used "that verb") getting a Cycle Licence to the level of being an esteemed right of passage, such as, getting a motorcycle or motorised vehicle license?

I recall having a Cycling Proficiency test at school. it involved 2/3 hours of driving round cones, learning the importance of signalling/looking, basic bike care etc. Even though I failed it didn't prevent me from riding on the roads (yes, I failed), but it did give me a better understanding of my role as roaduser.

For those that passed there was a sense of achievement, and for those in the cubs/brownies a lovely embroidered badge awaited.

Yes I remembet that as i passed with 93 ponits, i think you needed to get 95 and you get an extra medal, you become a knight of the road

Bikeability replaced the old Cycling Proficiency test with various levels of achievement which I think kids get certificates for. Adults (when they do the cycle training) get the same levels but no certificates.

When I was a kid, our local park had a big cycling area set aside where we did the cycling proficiency (and got our Brownie badges) which was designed like a little road system. It had road signs, traffic lights, a hill etc but all on a smaller scale so you could cycle round and learn how to signal and how to give way etc before you had to go anywhere near a real road.

Cellar Door - I'm not sure we will and partly because, unlike driving a motorbike or car, kids can (and should) start cycling when they're still kids - and suddenly imposing barriers feels wrong. One reason for the requirement for driving licenses is because motorised vehicles can be lethal weapons at relatively low speeds in terms of the speed/weight differential to other road users. And as most road users would admit, just because you've passed a test at some point, doesn't necessarily mean that you're a good driver.

Cyclists, in general and excluding those psycholists that we discussed earlier in the thread, don't carry as much risk - and the training is perhaps more about them preserving their own skins. And, to be honest, if you don't already care about your safety, how much more motivation do you need?