SE23 Forum

As an ex cyclist and ex motorcyclist I can say that ALL road users (and pedestrians) are muppets. I, of course, am the exception

Trolling, indeed! I have argued, perfectly reasonably and consistently, that the impact on pedestrians of cyclists who ride selfishly and aggressively is getting worse. If my tone has become dismissive of cyclists, it is because I have been disappointed by the defensiveness and petulance from those on this thread. As I have said before, they don’t do themselves any favours. I posted the links just prior to this because I was glad to see that there are some thoughtful cyclists who are concerned about the reputation of cycling.

Now then, the question no-one answered (but everyone had a pretty good idea). Two hours on the bus - one side only and half the time not looking – how many cyclists on the pavement? Twenty years ago? None, almost certainly. Ten years ago? Not sure. Two? Three? Maybe still none. And the other day? Ten. Plus a sixteen-year-old, so really eleven. But nothing is getting worse, right?

The problems caused by many cyclists’ behaviour are not confined to this country. It is a world-wide phenomenon that needs to be discussed. But first that means accepting that it is happening, and there’s no chance of that on this thread!

One evening on the way home I counted three cyclists on the pavement.

You didn't happen to clock how many cars were parked in cycle lanes, or pedestrains that stepped into the road without looking?

Sherwoon, I should clarify that the is aimed at those that commit these misdemeanors, and not your observation.

I did see one immaculate car reverse into a parked car!

It was not so immaculate afterwards!

Two motorbikes mount the pavement at a junction in Camberwell and drive up it to get around stationary traffic. A third attempted it but was blocked off by a passenger in scaffolder's truck opening his door in an attempt to put an end to it. If I ever work out how to edit down my video files I'll put a link in.

The only thing these anecdotes indicate is that people do stuff that ranges from stupid to dangerous in all sorts of activities. It's a shame that Hillsideresident cannot accept that nobody on here has denied that cyclists jump lights, ride on pavements etc (luckily the thread, although lengthy, speaks for itself if you read it back). There has been a discussion around the extent of the problem (I believe the thread even shows evidence of agreement that, as the number of cyclists has increased over the years, so has the number of misdemeanors) and the impact and possible impacts of it. Oh, and how we could look to deal with offenders or prevent them happening in the first place. A valid discussion and one I'm personally happy to continue but let's not be disingenuous while we go about it.

I can't believe I'm trying this again.

None of the regular cyclists here have denied that there are idiot cyclist out there who give those of us who do obey the law a bad name.

All we are asking is that you also accept that there are some good cyclists out there and stop tarring all of us with the same brush.

I assure you that you couldn't want to stop poor cyclist behaviour (be that pavement riding, red light jumping, ninja night cycling with no lights) any more than the law-abiding bods would like to since the reputation they leave behind harms all of us in the court of public opinion which, hillsideresident, you are a prime example of.

Great! So what's your solution?

As a starter I'd suggest equitable treatment of all misdemeanours - whether that is red light jumping (by any type of road user), pavement cycling, cycle lane walking/driving etc. On the spot cash fines to supplement any existing punishments available.

And preventative measures; better planned junctions for all parties; education and training for all with incentives to complete these; more designated shared pavements where space allows (and where the nature of the road is deemed significantly more dangerous to cycle on); more visible active policing of misdemeanours and stronger sentencing to discourage poor road use. And so on.

Pretty sure we covered potential solutions a few pages ago without really reaching any cost-effective or sensible resolution.

Personally, all I can do is lead by example and point out stupid behaviour to others if I get the chance.

Encountered a very intellectually challenged cyclist outside of Finches this morning. I was walking towards the station when down the pavement a young chap on a a blue mountain bike rode at some speed. He seemed most put out when I refused to jump out of his way and rode on shouting indistinctly (but probably rudely) into the distance.
A straw poll in the office today suggested I should have made some attempt to push him off but it didn't occur to me at the time. What is considered to be the right response these days?

The cyclist was absolutely in the wrong but you'd find yourself in more grief if you pushed him off I think. You'd have to argue you'd taken protective action ahead of an unavoidable collision and hope you were believed and no evidence to the contrary was found. Make your feelings known, make yourself awkward to them but don't endanger yourself.

I'd also hope that, whatever theoretical bravado is voiced about such situations, very few of us would be comfortable with intentionally causing someone else potentially serious injury even if they were doing something wrong.

P.s. hillsideresident will be pleased to hear that I encountered a pavement cyclist yesterday. Amused me no end that it was a uniformed policeman on a police marked bicycle.

You don't have to assault them to upset them. Saying anything about licensing annoys them, as does saying they're however-many-years too old to be on the pavement. If they shout abuse I tell them to grow up.

Essentially what's happening is a cultural shift whereby a lot of cyclists have become infantilised, which is why the status-quo-plus-10% "solutions" put forward above are a waste of time. Voluntary training indeed!

If they won't grow up of their own accord they need to be made to grow up, which means being treated like other road users (licence, compulsory training etc).

I agree that is bad luck on proper cyclists (whose existence I have always acknowledged), but some "proper cyclists" actually aren't that different. For example, being amused by police officers riding bikes on the pavement gives the game away (as does rarely seeing cyclists on the pavement). A real cyclist would realise what a bad example that sets. But the moment you start talking about "setting a bad example" you're talking about adult thinking, and so many cyclists (not all) think, and therefore ride, like children.

Hence the problem.

Hill Side Resident

You really do show your prejudices with this constant harping on about cyclists and their poor and infantile behaviour. Has it not occured to you that this lack of respect for others it permeates all aspects of society? Not jut cyclists but motorists, litter louts, binge drinkers, etc.,etc.

Yup, my childish nature has the power to delete pavement cyclists from the video footage of my daily commutes. Yes it happens, yes it happens more often than in the past, yes it's wrong. But those sort of statements are not good enough for you. Your childish nature obviously deletes them from your consciousness.

As does asking its proponents to tell you what it will achieve and how they can make it workable.

They're welcome as far as they go, but they don't provide a solution.

Driving a car or riding a motorbike without a licence is a serious offence. It would be the same for a bicycle. And you wouldn't get a licence until you had passed a test. Do you really think training cyclists would not achieve anything? Plus, idiots would end up losing their licences.

Of course, and you're entirely free to look for solutions to those problems. Indeed, I'll probably support you.

I suspect that cyclists' antipathy to licensing etc is simply because they have grown used to the status quo, and it suits them. And if there were only serious cyclists on the road I would agree. But the fact is that the demographics have changed radically. With so many more cyclists, and with so many idiots among them, the existing laissez-faire approach (which I always used to support) is hopelessly out of date.

Fine. I am quite happy to be licensed as a cyclist. So how do you propose to do it?

For a very good reason. So what is the reason to licence cyclists?

On a more positive cycling vibe, chapeau Brad and Chris! Will be amazing to see Brits on the top two places of the podium in Paris tomorrow.