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Do we need a pedestrian crossing on Perry Vale at the rear of Forest Hill station?
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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #21
14-05-2014 05:26 PM

I like the idea of a Single-lane chicane and this might also be a good alternative to speed cushions elsewhere.

Quote:
Single-lane working chicanes, which consist of staggered build-outs, narrowing the road so that traffic in one direction has to give way to opposing traffic.


The" build-outs" shown on wiki are quite attractive.


And they would not only slow all traffic, but also break up the continual stream of traffic which is the biggest obstacle in crossing PV during the peak hours. Provision would have to be made for cyclists though (boo!)

Gets my vote and if drivers prefer this solution to humps and authoritarian red lights and speed cameras then all the better.
My alternative vote goes to installing the pelican crossing.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #22
14-05-2014 05:35 PM

I'd like to see the bus that runs along Perry Vale negotiate that. Also, presumably it operates on a first-come, first served give-way system. Can't see that working on a busy road AND on a bend.

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Deano


Posts: 179
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #23
14-05-2014 05:48 PM

This road is my favourite in the whole of Forest Hill. Once you turn into it you can keep driving all the way to Bell Green, usually without stopping. This is in stark contrast to going through Sydenham or Catford which are always snarled up. Why you would want to spoil this rare delight by decorating it with stripes , lights, chicanes and other obtrusive street furniture is beyond me. It is not a difficult road to cross at all. I have small children and have never once thought it dangerous. Dartmouth Road , outside the pools is considerably worse for speeding etc but by following the green cross code I manage to do it safely everyday.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,516
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #24
14-05-2014 06:47 PM

A chicane works on a priority basis, so I would in this case suggest the traffic joining from Waldram cres be given priority to avoid the build up on traffic on the A205, while allowing traffic travelling along Perry Vale towards Waldram to see it and slow in time, and have a clearer line of sight of on coming cars.

Im sure located in the right place, and maybe stealing a little pavement back, the chicane could be navigated by a bus, they do already navigate through many like this.

And I have to say with the idea of a flowerbed to pretty it up too, I like the idea even more now.

PS I still agree with Deano however that I don't actually have a problem with the road as it is.

Another point to raise is an important one too. The manner in which pedestrians, especially commuters cross this road does not support the call for a crossing. Its a free for all, cross, run, walk dont look, etc. I can't for one second imagine thousands of commuters suddenly deciding a crossing is better. Some yes, majority no.

This post was last modified: 14-05-2014 06:51 PM by Snazy.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #25
20-05-2014 09:56 AM

The trouble with the pedestrian crossing idea is that you'd need two. One for those leaving the station in the direction of Waldram Park Road and points east, one for those heading for Perry Vale and points south. Hardly anybody is going to go one way to cross the road then double back. So it'll be back to the usual free-for-all on one side of the station. So you may as well not bother.

Still think some means of ensuring a safe crossing of Waldram Place would be a better idea.

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #26
20-10-2014 10:42 AM

A petition has been started by a local councillor for:

Quote:
the installation of a safe, controlled pedestrian crossing of Perry Vale, close to the entrance of Forest Hill train station. Implement any other traffic control measures to ensure this is a safe crossing place for pedestrians


You can sign it at http://lewisham-consult.objective.co.uk/...ll_station

But you need to be quick as the petition closes on 11th May 2015 - just after the next general election. (I have no idea why it should take 208 days to collect signatures)

This post was last modified: 20-10-2014 10:42 AM by michael.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,516
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #27
20-10-2014 12:55 PM

If a zebra crossing goes in, I give it 3 months before someone gets run over.
The road needs traffic calming more than anything.

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BringOutTheCranston


Posts: 81
Joined: Sep 2013
Post: #28
20-10-2014 01:12 PM

I think that this issue has been raised before and it's actually the council who have said it's unsafe to have a crossing there.

It does seem strange to say that it's unsafe to have a crossing there when it's actually a place that people are crossing.

However as far as I am aware this is a council ruling. So it seems somewhat strange that a councillor is putting together a petition about getting the council to do something.

It sorts of defeats the idea of getting elected as a councillor if the only way that you can try and get something changed is to get a petition together rather than get a real change through council.

Anyone can start a petition, councillors are supposed to have the power to do things.

Or is this just a publicity measure to be seen to be doing something rather than actually doing something.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #29
20-10-2014 01:12 PM

Agree Snazy. At least the bollards have stopped the taxi firm parking on/half on the pavement.

I think parking on that curb is asking for trouble as is parking outside the ski shop.

Sight lines are bad enough around there.

Lets also not forget the car crash which injured a forum users dad when it smashed up the bus shelter.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,516
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #30
20-10-2014 01:22 PM

Lets be honest, the difference between a safe place to cross and where people choose to cross is, when its convinient and the quickest way, safety really doesn't seem to matter to the masses. As proven between 5.30 and 7pm Mon to Friday, as the lemmings begin their 'im not walking ALL THAT WAY' ritual.

A chicane slows the traffic, damages the vehicle if they fail to, prevents selfish and stupid parking, and reduces the speed of the cars enough for them to take evasive action (aka STOP) if the need arises.

Putting a crossing in a place which most people agree has poor sight lines, is just asking for an accident, and as I have pointed out numerous times, just gives the mindless a false sense of security.

Plenty of people negotiate crossing the road with caution every day. Others just believe its their right for the seas to part, and safe passage be granted.

An example of the style of chicane that I would recommend is in the pic I attached. Its on the brow of a hill with slightly awkward sight lines, but still works VERY effectively. Yes the road is wider, but that also allows for parked cars, so road widths are very similar.

Personally I think there is room for one, and it would create a safer road.... Just my opinion of course.

   

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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #31
20-10-2014 09:29 PM

Signed.

They would install a pelican type controlled crossing rather than a zebra crossing. Zebras, are lovely to look at and effective during the day, but are often ignored/dangerous at night.

Maybe a road narrowing/choker would be a more fashionable solution, but they have problems of their own: cyclists are being crunched in practice. Sad
So I've gone off this idea, unless somehow there was provision made for bikes.
http://ibikelondon.blogspot.co.uk/2013/0...owing.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming


I'm delighted that councillor John Paschoud has seemingly had a change of heart and recognises that something needs to be installed here. I hope there hasn't been a recent fatality on this stretch of road.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #32
21-10-2014 06:35 AM

If they can find a way to install a pelican there that doesn't cause traffic to queue back to the South Circular (even more than it does now as it waits to turn into Waldram Crescent), good on them.

While they are at it, and even if a crossing doesn't go ahead, they need to ban all parking outside the new flats. It causes both bottlenecks and dangerous driving.

Re cyclists: many chicane islands have a bike lane between the island and the pavement, no?

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michael


Posts: 3,255
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #33
21-10-2014 07:40 AM

I think there is space for including a crossing on Perry Vale somewhere close to lamppost 007 http://goo.gl/maps/og7An

The sightlines are reasonably good and a zebra or pelican crossing could work in this location. Putting it closer to the station exit would need a pelican crossing.

I'm sure I have seen temporary traffic lights on this stretch of road when there are road works, so the sightlines must be good enough to allow for this.

The idea of a chicane has been tried out but numerous people parking on the double yellow lines or outside the taxi rank. It doesn't work very well!

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lacb


Posts: 627
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #34
21-10-2014 08:10 AM

A reasonable suggestion Michael, even if that lamppost has a licence to kill.

On caveat though - am mindful of the situation at HOP station. There are 2 zebra crossings, each one probably closer to the station exit/underpass than this one would be. Nevertheless, many people still opt to cross the road before getting to the crossing.

What about a zebra crossing near the underpass and a concave mirror and warning signs for cars turning out of Waldram place?

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,412
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #35
21-10-2014 09:30 AM

How about a bridge over the road directly into the railway station.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #36
21-10-2014 09:33 AM

lacb, I must come across as a really negative person on here so I apologise.

In my experience signs and concave mirrors mean nothing to a section of society that really just do not care about you and I.

I cannot count the times that I have had to run out of the way of drivers driving the wrong way down Manor Mount and this despite the fact that I have my two young children with me. They would rather ignore the many no entry signs because they cannot be a***d to wait to get to the lights on Honor Oak Road.

That includes people travelling past the station in FH who turn right onto the London Road on the wrong side of the road because they get confused and those that run the red light when turning left into Waldram Crescent. They just don't care because there is no one to stop them.

We are over run with signs as it is.

I personally wouldn't put my and my kids safety in the hands of a sign and mirror.

Sorry.

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Perryman


Posts: 820
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #37
21-10-2014 04:46 PM

Quote:
Re cyclists: many chicane islands have a bike lane between the island and the pavement, no?

I think that is a no. Cycle lanes tend to disappear whenever there is something difficult that needs to be negotiated - problem solved!

Perhaps chicanes could be made safe so cyclists are not forced into the oncoming traffic, but it is fantasy to think Lewisham would make any such effort. As much as I like the idea of aggressive drivers colliding each other out of the driving pool, on reflection it would be the vulnerable that would get squished.

In any case a crossing is required here. These particular traffic calming measures do not make safe crossing points, as drivers are more focussed on their dual with the oncoming traffic.

A basic responsive pelican crossing is the simplest tried and tested solution. And as I understand it, we are just waiting for someone to be killed before they'll install it. Let's pull straws.

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robbrockley


Posts: 91
Joined: Jun 2013
Post: #38
21-10-2014 05:02 PM

That includes people travelling past the station in FH who turn right onto the London Road on the wrong side of the road because they get confused

What does this mean? You do know that you can turn right from both lanes at that junction and are meant to to increase the flow of traffic.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #39
21-10-2014 06:27 PM

Perryman - I'm not talking about a full cycle lane, but a narrow passage that means cyclists can go straight on without giving way. I've seen plenty of those. For example, at the junction of Lennard Road and Kings Hall Road, where the cars coming out of the latter have to give way, there is a narrow cycle lane between the island and the footpath. Okay, it's not technically a chicane, but the principal is the same.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #40
21-10-2014 07:45 PM

robbrockley.

Cars traveling from Catford to FH then going past the station and turning right travel on the RHS of the pedestrian island. In other words, on the wrong side of the road completely.

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