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36 Honor Oak Road (ex Hamilton Lodge Care Home)
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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #161
25-04-2015 08:24 AM

Well said Roz, agree whole heartedly and you speak with experience. We may not see eye to eye on politics but I have to credit you with knowing what you are talking about here.

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67Park


Posts: 33
Joined: Feb 2015
Post: #162
28-04-2015 09:42 PM

Finally got a reply from the Dowd dynasty. They just copied and pasted Cllr Upex’s post 140 of this thread on this forum and quoted me that as their answer. How very lazy is that?

And Cllr Hilton, as you entered into the debate on this forum (post 146), then perhaps you can enlighten us here too as to the exact meaning of your exact words…

…“difficult crossing and more parents parking close to the school need for care home... was there an attack on a nursery nearby not so long ago?”

Did ask for an answer before, but am asking again. Seriously, if you are our political representatives we do deserve answers and do expect some form of coherent logic from you.

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Antony


Posts: 10
Joined: Jun 2012
Post: #163
28-04-2015 11:26 PM

I got a similar reply. It's the same sort of cynical, self-serving junk that we hear everyday from mainstream national politicians being aped by their local counterparts. It's very disheartening that they have so little respect for the genuine concerns of people in this community that they trot out this pap rather than answer the questions posed in this forum and elsewhere.

Other contributors have said that politics should be kept out of this discussion but the fact is that the Labour MP, the Labour Council and local Labour councillors are unanimous in backing the Hamilton Lodge hostel while the Lib Dems and Conservatives are both opposed to it.

Draw your own conclusions.

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localbigwig


Posts: 42
Joined: Oct 2014
Post: #164
06-05-2015 11:24 AM

Has anybody heard the result of the planning applications for Hamilton Lodge and 118 Canonbie Road yet?

Could it be that they are waiting for the election to be over before they tell us?

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Maja Hilton


Posts: 18
Joined: May 2014
Post: #165
06-05-2015 12:14 PM

There will be a public meeting in regards to the planning applications some time in late May or early June. At least two weeks notice will be given. As soon as I know the date I will post it here.

This post was last modified: 06-05-2015 12:15 PM by Maja Hilton.

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152047
No Longer Registered

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan 2011
Post: #166
06-05-2015 08:10 PM

I have been to a few of these.

Cllr Hilton, if you think it is going to make a difference why don't you give us some examples of where the Council changed its mind in relation to a public meeting of this pre-planning committee type?

What was Einstein's definition of madness? To repeat the same experiment and expect a different result. Only this time it is a bit more insulting.

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #167
07-05-2015 09:53 AM

Forest Hill Society response to the two applications can be read at http://www.foresthillsociety.com/2015/05...lodge.html

In summary:

Quote:
We have no objection to the principle of these applications and understand that short term family accommodation is much needed across the borough for its residents. However, we are concerned about some of the supporting material with these applications and the quality of the accommodation

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #168
07-05-2015 10:17 AM

See post 153.

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localbigwig


Posts: 42
Joined: Oct 2014
Post: #169
07-05-2015 11:17 AM

As it’s Polling day Michael, may I ask what percentage of the Forest Hill Society membership voted in favour of Hamilton Lodge becoming a Hostel for homeless families?

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #170
07-05-2015 12:13 PM

localbigwig,
Within the Forest Hill Society we do not hold referendum on each planning application in the area. We have a group of people who are familiar with planning issues who arrive at an agreed position for each application. It is perfectly understandable that some members of the Forest Hill Society will have a different opinion to the planning committee.

I would encourage anybody with an opinion to write to the planning department to state their views and also to attend the local meeting that is being organised.

In this situation we took account of the need for accommodation for homeless families and the expected impact on the local community (a very different situation to Miriam Lodge). We also took into account that local schools had expressed no interest in using this site for an extension of existing facilities (preferring single sites).

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localbigwig


Posts: 42
Joined: Oct 2014
Post: #171
07-05-2015 01:37 PM

Whilst I do appreciate the good work that you and the Forest Hill Society do to maintain the charm and beauty of the area, with this project I can see nothing but the opposite.
So I was surprised and disappointed that a small group within your membership
should give our local council their blessings to such a disruptive addition to yet another
part of Forest Hill.

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #172
07-05-2015 03:19 PM

localbigwig,
If we thought it was going to dramatically change the character of the area we would have objected, just as we did with Miriam Lodge.

The people who the council intends to house here are not 'pimps and arsonists and schizophrenics and hardened criminals' (mentioned in a previous post), it will be purely for families who are in need of a roof over their head, and preferably somewhere basic to cook food, rather than relying entirely on fast food outlets. The use of entirely separate premises for families, rather than sharing with single homeless people, is beneficial for these families.

Although there may be better places for such a hostel, with higher PTAL ratings, and closer to town centres, we should not try to exclude local homeless families from sharing the charm and beauty of Forest Hill with the rest of us.

This gives the council five years to find a better solution to the housing crisis. And we will have a large building that could be used for other community purposes after the five years finishes.

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localbigwig


Posts: 42
Joined: Oct 2014
Post: #173
07-05-2015 04:09 PM

Michael

I envisage big problems and you don’t, so we will have to agree to differ.
Of course I hope you are right and I am wrong and every family turns out to be
a real pleasure to be around.

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67Park


Posts: 33
Joined: Feb 2015
Post: #174
07-05-2015 05:17 PM

Thanks for confirming that Michael. I always suspected the FHS was a Council apologist, now we know.

Exactly how many members does the FHS have out of the Forest Hill population of around 15,000 (as well as the 30,000+ in neighbouring wards whom they claim to represent)?

Not exactly a democratic voice, more like a self-interested pressure group. Does the FHS live around Hamilton Lodge? No. Does this directly affect the FHS? No. Then why is the FHS consulted on these matters? Surely they are a non-statutory consultee, so if their membership figures do not hold up then I am personally going to work hard to ensure that their comments are disregarded as an unrepresentative group with no legal right to be regarded.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #175
07-05-2015 05:35 PM

67park, why dont you join the society then you can have your say?

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67Park


Posts: 33
Joined: Feb 2015
Post: #176
07-05-2015 05:46 PM

There’s only one of me, so I might just do that and probably double the membership. I’ve asked FHS a straight question, I only want a number, then we can decide how representative they are.

I doubt neither the FHS, TLERA nor the Councillors have bothered to read all 207 pages of documents and detailed plans, so the wool has well and truly been pulled over their eyes.

Nobody is saying these families going into hostels are already anti-social, it the institution itself which causes that effect, no matter how new the facility. I asked the Council a simple question about ASB in their hostels. They know it’s a problem, so have forced me to make a FOI request as this may not be processed prior to the application being granted.

The 50 children in these hostels WILL be entitled to attend local schools, see the High Court ruling from 2009 which gave all individuals in hostels the same legal protections and rights as we enjoy, so these children cannot be discriminated against for having no permanent address. And it’s not about what the schools want, it’s about what the need is.

The 26-week hocus pocus is just that too, there is no legal requirement for this and in fact the true average stay is closer to 16 months. Oh, and I cannot believe the FHS believes that the housing crisis will be all sorted in 5 years time. They really have had the wool well stretched over their peelers.

Further, the FHS is agreeing to the waste of almost £10M on 29 families, where neighbouring boroughs can house twice as many for a tenth of the cost. The FHS and the Council are financially illiterate, and when all the costs come out in the wash (another FOI request no doubt), this shocking waste of money when all services are stretched will only serve to show what a foolish proposal this is.

Nothing new there though!

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #177
07-05-2015 05:49 PM

Michael, as youve taken a quote from my post I will reply. I was a peripatetic hostel warden for Lewisham Homeless Families for about 18 months working across 5 hostels. The ' range' of people was wide, but there were most definitely ' pimps, hardened criminals and schizophrenics housed in those places which was an explosive mix and one which led to the exploitation and abuse of more vulnerable guests. I remember their names and their faces to this day not least the schizophrenic who regularly set her clothes on fire in her room endangering others. The same person was often brought back by the police wrapped in a blanket as shed gone walkabout naked no doubt having burnt her clothes. There were rows and fights on a regular basis requiring police attendance. Much of this was caused by the pressure of living in close quarters with strangers and no privacy but also single people with high dependency needs. There were school age children coming home alone with the parents not on the premises. I complained about the tenant mix but it fell on deaf ears. If you assert that this is no longer the case then I would be very pleased but Id appreciate reassurance from the Council that theyve moved on and will prioritise safeguarding and the creation of a safe and well managed environment for its vulnerable residents.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #178
07-05-2015 06:01 PM

67park, there are a lot of children in the area entitled to local schools but they dont get in. I cant see any of the three local schools fitting in 50 kids from these hostels.

I would never have called the FHS a Council apologist in anyones wildest dreams personally.

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Glasshalffull


Posts: 23
Joined: Jun 2011
Post: #179
07-05-2015 07:23 PM

Will the families housed here be from Lewisham or will they be from other boroughs? Lewisham does take in more homeless families from other London boroughs than any other London borough does.

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michael


Posts: 3,223
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #180
07-05-2015 08:51 PM

First, I probably need to clarify something. The Forest Hill Society response actually counts as an objection to this application, I probably wasn't particularly clear on that point (or in my response to localbigwig) and I would like to apologise if I've confused the issue.

This is not an objection to the principle of hostels being in Forest Hill, but with a number of concerns about the details for the individuals living in the two hostels in the future. I would urge everybody with an interest in this site to read the full text of the submission at http://www.foresthillsociety.com/2015/05...lodge.html

67park,
The Forest Hill Society has approximately 400 members. You are welcome to make the case that we are not representative of the area as a whole, and I'm happy to accept that local councillors (and the MP) are the people who have been properly democratically elected to represent local people.
But the members of the Forest Hill Society care about the area, particularly those of the members who sit on our various committees and volunteer to do so much to improve the area. We care about plants and businesses in the high street, we care about vulnerable living in our community, we care about trains, swimming pools, playgrounds, planning, and lots more besides.

You are welcome to join or not, you are welcome to join our committees or not, and you are welcome to question whether we speak for the entire community (which we don't claim to do). One thing that I do want to be clear about is that when we do write a formal response on behalf of the FH Society, we post it on our website for everybody to see (even when we know that some will have a different opinion). Those who wish to disagree are entitles to disagree and express their own views to the council. At the end of the day, the decision will be reached by Lewisham planning committee based on the merits of the case (not by the Forest Hill Society).

Roz,
I completely respect your perspective and experience. I'm hoping that the experiences you recount are in hostels that are mixing single adults who are homeless with homeless families, something that I don't think should be encouraged (particularly with shared facilities) but I believe exists in other hostels. If this is the case then I hope that problems in this hostel will be minimised as there won't be single adults whose needs and problems are rather different to families. I would be interested to know if I have assumed too much.

Glasshalffull,
Do you have any source for that information. It certainly wasn't mentioned in the ward assembly in March when this was discussed. Presentation from Lewisham Housing can be viewed at http://councilmeetings.lewisham.gov.uk/d...ebsite.pdf

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