In addition to the problem regarding oversubscription for limited school places what about our overstretched GP's surgeries and NHS services in the area?
It is hideously difficult to get doctors appointments in the area as it is.
And access to other NHS services have insane waiting lists.
I've been waiting since March for an appointment from a referral my GP made for me..its insane.
When I lived in K&C I was able to get a GP appointment if not on the same day then within 24hours. Ditto after referral to a clinic there by my GP I was seen within a month.
Surely the influx of all these families and transients will add additional strain to what I have already experienced as substandard healthcare in The borough of Lewisham and specifically Forest hill

Jaradras,
you raise some interesting points regarding need and provision of temporary house, and I suggest you direct them to local councillors who should be able to get hold of the figures. Alternatively you could attend the meeting on Saturday and ask the officers directly if they could provide you with the figures.

There will be occasions where 5 bed units will only be used for 3 or 4 individuals. It is difficult for the council to plan exact matches between household sizes and units available, but they are obviously going to provide the most appropriate accommodation for the family concerned. 100 is the maximum number of beds planned for the units, based on the plans I saw yesterday.

Similarly I wouldn't get too caught up in the 6 month average time spent in temporary accommodation. The average will deal with some families that quickly move on, and others who are stuck in the system for much longer. But the 6 months figure was first presented to me as a 23 week *maximum* stay. It is not a maximum and the figure was confirmed to be an average (median or mode I did not ask), and I think 6 months is a better way to express their 23 week figure. In actual fact it is more like 5 months and 1 week, rather than 6 months.

nottinghillbilly,
Health services won't really be a problem for Lewisham as this part of the ward is not really covered by any local GPs. They will have to go to Southwark to see a doctor!

thanks for response Michael!

Hi everyone, I'm new and have not posted before but this story caught my eye and I must comment. Homelessness is a subject close to my heart as I've been there twice over the years and my experiences of hostels may interest you. The first time was thirty years ago, it came about after a disasterous marriage ended followed by a breakdown and I lost everything. I was a decent, well educated bloke which shows that it can happen to anyone. I was so glad of a place in a hostel, it was a whole lot better than shop doorways and it wasn't a terrible experience. It took me a few months to get on my feet and then I was off to start a new life. Ten years ago my life went wrong again and I was glad to be offered a place in a hostel - little did I know how things (or people) had changed! Peoples' attitudes are now so different, a sense of entightlement that I have never come across. Instead of being grateful for a roof over their heads they are aggressive, greedy, disrespectful and when confronted, resort to abusive behaviour. Theft within is rife - food, clothes, pillows etc followed by the obligatory fighting when discovered. You almost have to sleep with an eye open and take everything with you when you go out. Forget about rules, they are all ignored and the idea of a 9 - 5 warden is a joke. Night time is the worst when the cans and the cheap cider come out, different ethnic groups turn on each other and the noise is unbearable. I begged to be moved and I thought I had got lucky, but the next one was worse! I used to feel sorry for people in nearby houses, even if they didn't hear all the night time noise they had to look at the dreadful mess out front. During fights furniture got smashed and would just get left outside, blokes too lazy to wait for an empty loo would relieve themselves up the wall. Neighbours must have complained to the council but nothing ever changed. It's not just the blokes, some of the families were the biggest offenders. So when the council tells you that it's going to be mainly for families don't be fooled! I see that their children will keep going to their old schools and how do you think they will get there? Some of the mothers were unbelievable - demanding (and getting) cabs to ferry their kids to school 'cos it's too far'. You good people of Honor Oak are right to be worried. My life has turned around now and I can work and rent a half decent flat but I would NEVER want to live anywhere near a hostel (especially one with 100 beds). An earlier poster made a suggestion which was maybe tongue in cheek but it really made sense to me. Living in the old offices at Catford Town Hall would be a great place. When you're on your uppers and genuinely trying to dig your way out you need every bit of help you can get. I lost count of how many times I used to visit the housing office, Citizen Advice, job centre, social workers, library etc. Living in the middle of it all would have been great and it looks like a palace compared to my old hostels. The homeless can't afford to be picky but I reckon that being stuck up on the hill (away from beady eyes) would be a disaster. I don't have children so I'm not in the loop re school places but just reading the posts I can see there is a big problem. I'm grateful for the help I've had over the years from local councils but if I've learnt one thing it's that they don't listen to the very people who pay their wages. So, good luck.

There are other hostels for homeless families in the borough.
Does anyone on this forum have experience of what living near one is like?
Also where are the other hostels?

Michael, thanks for your summary and thanks also to the dodger (whom I wish continued good fortune). Although informative, neither posts make comfortable reading. However, it's not a done deal yet (or so we're told) so we must hope that the council take note of our concerns during the next phase of consultation. We must put pressure on our councillors who will have a lot more influence at the Town Hall than us. They will want to get re-elected next year so now is the time to show us their worth. Let's all write to the education secretary about the current schooling problem for local children and warn of what is to come when Tyson Rd is complete. If you have had useful experience objecting to a planning application then please share it on here. Very strong arguments have to be put forward and all advice will be appreciated.

Hi localbigwig.

Don't get me started on these hideous places - just have a look for the thread about Miriam Lodge on this forum. Another hostel that houses too many challenged/challenging adults in a neighbourhood that's not big enough to be able to comfortably absorb them.

It's so good to see thedodger's input to this debate because he's been there and he's telling it exactly as it is. There are too many do-gooders out there who will try to argue for this new hostel - and before any one of them decides to dig me out DON'T BOTHER because I've been through it as a young child with my brother, sister and mother.

Honor Oak people, for the sake of your (my old) neighbourhood, I sincerely hope that you manage to fend-off this ill-conceived piece of c**p.

By the way, I respectfully doff my hat off to you thedodger for the help that you've given through sharing your difficult experiences with this forum. Take care mate!

To all with concerns about local school places.

Although the council are saying children will not be transferring from schools that they already attend in the borough; what if they are new to the area and are not already registered at a Lewisham school?
Also transport from this part of Forest Hill is via just one bus the P4, which may not serve the area of a child’s registered school elsewhere in the borough, therefore necessitating a transfer to a more local school!

This project is being fast tracked through the planning process as people are
busy preparing for Christmas...so if you want to oppose the planning application
then prepare now, make sure everybody that may be affected is aware and be ready to send your objections as soon as the planning application is made official.

The Council's plans to convert these two buildings into 100 bed hostels for homeless people are a major threat to the currently stable, peaceful and secure lives of residents in Honor Oak Rd, the streets off it and the surrounding area.

Of course, some people become homeless for no fault of their own and deserve help but that doesn't mean that have to be located in densely packed accommodation in SE23. There is already a 125 bed homeless hostel in Dartmouth Road, now the Council wants to add another 100 places.

Is SE23 going to become the homelessness centre of London?

Not an appealing prospect, for there is no getting away from the fact that some homeless people are not the best neighbours. The Council itself admits that:

# Many of the homeless people it deals with have 'high support needs'. This could be drug and alcohol abuse, criminality, domestic violence and anti-social behaviour.

# In a recent survey of its existing hostels the Council found that there were reports of anti-social behaviour involving 20% of homeless tenants.

Nearby residents already had to put up with the behaviour of tenants at 118 Canonbie, which has been a homelessness hostel for some time. They hoped the Council would close it down. Instead they are keeping it and want to make matters worse by converting Hamilton Lodge into a hostel too.

Tenants will be admitted to these hostels on an emergency basis. They will be short stay. This means that there will be a constant turnover of the 100 places with people flowing in and out every few days. In the course of a year there could be 200, 500, 800, who knows how many. And each will be bringing their problems to our neighbourhood and placing extra demands on our already overstretched local services.

The Council says that it's cheaper to provide accommodation for homeless people themselves than to place them in B&B, but they have not produced any evidence to prove it. Are they really doing it to save money or to get around the earnings cap which means that people on benefits should not receive more than people who are working for their living?

Homeless people have to live somewhere and deserve compassion but it doesn't follow that helping them should be at the cost of destroying settled neighbourhoods like ours by packing them into what are, in effect, high density homelessness warehouses. Instead, they should be distributed around in much smaller units.

It will take a fight to stop this happening. Councillors, political parties, our MP, local associations, nearby residents and others who care about our neighbourhood need to be mobilised soon if we are going to stand up to the Council.

36 Honor Oak Road and 116 Canonbie Road, I believe are part of the Tewkesbury Lodge Estate Residents Association, if so, why no communication from them on this matter ?. It will require co-ordination and representation of the community views on this matter if the Council Planners , local councillors, MP etc are to take any note.

Yes, where are they on this topic? They may spring into action when it goes to planning - they normally take an interest. Meanwhile how about mass emailing Jim Dowd MP. Much quicker than writing and just as effective. Email address - dowdj@parliament.uk Spread the word (especially you Twitter users) - let's get his inbox full!

I don't live in the Tewkesbury Lodge Estate Residents Association area, but I understand the issue was discussed at their AGM a few weeks ago, and I saw half the committee at Catford Town Hall on Thursday evening.

Of course as well as Tewkesbury Lodge Estate Residents Association, the Forest Hill Society will continue to take a keen interest in this site and will work with our friends in TLERA.

Tlera have an item on Hamilton Lodge in their just published newsletter. It's not entirely clear what stance the committee are taking but it reads as though they are only concerning themselves with the 'process' of converting the building and are not opposing the principle of it being turned into a hostel.
The committee is there of course to represent members not to reach its own decision about what it's going to do.

Yes come on TLERA - isn't this precisely what you're meant to be for? Ratchet up campaign now!

Anyone who thinks that either Lewisham or our local councillors are going to listen to local concerns and change their plans may be in for a nasty surprise.

The Council has already bought Hamilton Lodge. All the discussions about using it to house homeless families would have taken place months if not years ago within the centre for incompetence, secrecy and waste that is otherwise known as Laurence House. It is always much easier for a bureaucracy to carry on as planned rather than make a U-turn so it would take something really big to make them change their minds at this late stage.

As for our local councillors they will be required to tow the party line whatever their personal views. Even if they decided to oppose the plans in the one party state that is Lewisham it would just get voted through by all the other reds.

By all means campaign but don't be surprised if you get stitched up by the usual suspects. Consultation by Lewisham is like the Chinese idea of democracy for Hong Kong. You may choose whatever option you like ... from the ones you have been offerred.

PS TLERA got so beaten up on this forum about the nursery set up in breach of local covenants they may be wary of saying anything in public.

Hamilton Lodge would better serve the borough of Lewisham as a residential care home run by the council to a standard that took proper care of our elderly. (Unlike some private care home owners it would seem).

alternatively it would make an excellent and close extension to both of the already over stretched local primary schools.

I am surprised that this thread has gone so quiet, with up to 50 new children potentially arriving well within the catchment area of both Fairlawn and Horniman primary schools this must be of some concern to the local community!
Maybe Lewisham have promised only families/households with teenagers and babies will be resident.

Lewisham did say that a child with a place at another school in the borough would not be able to transfer to a local school. I'm not sure how they would get to a school on the other side of the borough.

But just because the thread has gone quiet doesn't mean it won't be covered in this week's South London Press - out on Friday!

A lot of people on this forum raised the issue of these hostels impacting on local schools when homeless families will be moved here. We are not just talking about new admissions but school transfers. Michael ( 24/10/14) explained that there will be not be an impact because the Council had said the families/childrens "permanent address" would not be the hostel & therefore not be eligible for admission to the local primary/nursery schools, he was given this information by the Council.

The issue has been raised by a number of individuals most recently & this issue cannot be ignored by the Council.

I have just checked Lewisham admissions policy for primary school/nurseries which is available on their website and it states that :

applicants must demonstrate that the address that they are applying from is their permanent home address & they need to provide council tax statements ( which they will be getting whilst at the hostel) ;
child benefit or child tax credit letters ( which they will have because they have lost their previous home to be homeless & the hostel is their new address & their permanent home unless a permanent offer of accommodation is made to them) ; utility bills ( which they will have at the hostel) etc. They will fulfill all these criteria.

Children who do not fit the above criteria but have social/medical reasons will also be given priority for schools of their choice with supporting documentation. There will be children from these groups in the hostels.

There will also be homeless households who were previously not Lewisham residents & wish to be rehoused in Lewisham for personal protection,medical reasons/etc -these individuals would be entitled to apply for admission whilst they are in these hostels & then express preference to stay in the area when the permanent accommodation is offered.

Homeless household parents will also want their children moved to local schools rather than travel several miles to get their children to their original schools - conisder the time and expense. This issue is ground enough to be considered as a transfer to the two schools from anywhere in the borough ( & outside) at the admission stage/appeals stage or any judicial review.

Homeless households can also amend their preferences or areas of choice in the borough where they wish to be housed permanently & in cases where they get admission or transfer to these schools this will be their home, so for them having to travel to another part of the borough does not arise (Michael 5/11/14).

The admissions limit for the two schools Fairlawn and Horniman was 90 for 2013/2014. Schools are already oversubscribed and all you need is a few children applying from these hostels & for the above criteria to apply, Lewisham Council will have a problem on their hands and the parents living here will be frustrated and distressed !. In my opinion the hostels will have an impact on the two schools.

We also have the Tyson Road development coming up at some stage which will also impact on these schools & services in the area.

The Council has spent over £3m buying these two properties and they cannot afford for this project to fail. I do not wish to be political but as for local councillors batting on our behalf , 152047 ( 28/10/14) has said it all, totally agree with your sentiments.