We can only hope with a large crowd of pedestrians precariously balanced at the very edge of the pavement, that drivers take more care at this junction.

In other boroughs where these barriers have been removed, pedestrian accidents have gone down so it is not impossible that drivers will actually be more careful.

It is counter intuitive but in the same way, if pedestrians on the island were blindfolded and made to hop up and down on roller skates, alarmed drivers might take even more care and the chance of a serious accident might reduce further.

But that does not mean it is the right thing to do - that was identified in 2003 with a islandless 1 phase crossing.

I like the less cluttered look but given how the old barriers got banged up and replaced after being hit I do worry about that junction.

I've been told twice by TfL that the pedestrian barriers between the station and launderette would not be removed, they even sent me updated diagrams just a couple of days ago.

If they have removed these barriers after agreeing that it would not be entirely safe to do so without better consideration of the junction, then I'm going to be rather irritated, and will be asking them to carry out a full review of this junction immediately.

Could be temporary, although they do seem to have plugged the leg holes with paving. Perhaps the contractors picked the wrong crossing (most of the other guard railing still seems to be in place)...

I suspect the contractors didn't think and just took down all the barriers.

Or more cynically this is now a fait accompli and you'll never hear from tfl again about plans to redesign the whole junction.

Here is what I wrote to TfL this morning:

I will keep you informed about any response I get from TfL.

Good work Michael.
Thank you for doing this on our behalf.

They may as well leave them now and just get rid of all of them.

While I might not use that crossing everyday, the times I have used it over the last week (despite my initial condemnation of the removal), I've found it quite nice not to be all crowded in the little area and did not feel unsafe while standing there.

I was horrified on Saturday when on two seperate occassions I saw buggies being pushed diagonally across the junction. People don't always seem to have any common sense. With the number of lorries that use the South Circular as well as the rush hour traffic, I don't think it will be very long before we see a fatality there. The whole of central Forest Hill needs a re-think.

True - there is a severe lack of common sense in general around the place..

I certainly like the look of the new layout, but if they are not prepared to defend the safety of the removal of these railings, then it must be better for them to return, until they can remove the railings in conjunction with proper consideration for pedestrian safety. Earlier in this thread I suggested that TfL are experts and know what they are doing. I now completely retract any suggestion of their competence, and I apologise for misleading people.

Personally I always crossed outside of the fenced area as I prefer to dodge the traffic as the lights change, and I don't like queuing on a pedestrian island.

Yesterday I noticed a bike coming at me across this pedestrian island to go down to the subway. I'm not sure if this counts as a safety improvement on this pedestrian crossing.

I think the real issue is not the railings or the lack of them, but the fact that you can't cross from the (old laundrette) to the station in one go. It's the wait in the middle that makes people do things that are not always safe, and they'll continue to do that whether the railings are there are not. In fact, without the railings its easier it hop back onto the island if you need to abort a between-lights manoeuvre.

The fact is that while the lights continue to phase at a point where it can take a good 2-3 minutes to cross the road, which can lead to missing trains, people will continue to take risks crossing from the island

The island needs to be scrapped with a straight forward crossing put in place.

Has anyone got a copy of the Forest Hill Urban Design Framework 2003, that they could stick on here? In particular the pages on this crossing.

It apparently proposed a nice redesign of the junction which met the main concerns.

The document comes in three sections. The third section is probably most relevant and is attached.
It took me a while to find it online (in my email archive from 2008), but I have the other two sections at home if you need them uploaded.

Thank you Michael - that is absolutely fascinating, especially the mention of the underpass lift access and the PV side improvements.

However, the main crossing does not get a mention in this section of the framework. (There might be more info in section 4.3.5.)

There is an artist's impression though, showing our barrier-less island and people waiting to cross, but there does not seem to be any pedestrian signalling at all at this point!
I think I'm meant to be ogling at the concept of the new station and plaza rather than crossing details.

   

Have now used this crossing in its new design, and don't like it at all.

Railings also removed at junction of Stanstead Rd/Cranston Rd/Brockley Rise, which is a much better idea, and one I fully support.

However, given that I've now passed my driving test, I think all of Forest Hill should probably want railings.

Oh they've put the railings back today.

One step forward, two steps back.

Statistically it's better not to have them. I guess the perception was too much for some people to handle and they complained.

Wrote a letter to say the intersection needs to be reviewed as a whole and money spent on making the island brighter, safer and better crossing sequence.


Probably won't hear anything back.

Chris,
I was the one who complained, or at least expressed concern, hoping for some reassurance. Instead TfL, after a few weeks to respond, came back to me to tell me that these fences would not be removed. They offered no evidence to support their removal from this site, which makes me think that nobody had properly considered the implications prior to their decision to remove them.

Statistically crossings are safer without fences. I accept that, but statistics can hide a few details. How many of these fenceless crossings are in places where the main route makes a sweeping turn, as is the case here? And how many of these fenceless crossings had other work to improve safety?

I would welcome the removal of these fences as part of a well considered plan for this junction and the rather small pedestrian island. Some have suggested a full pedestrian phase at the junction, others have suggested better placement of filter lights and pedestrian signals, and a wider pedestrian island.

We are meant to see the other fences removed from the other islands at this junction (where fenceless crossings are more pleasant and unlikely to be any more dangerous). Unfortunately TfL used a contractor who cannot read maps or carry out simple instructions.