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Bus Services - Overcrowded in South East London
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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #41
04-12-2013 10:33 AM

Mr_Numbers,

Not certain where I saw this and it is possible that I confused it with Peak Vehicle Requirement as Baboonery notes.

However, there is this source:
http://www.londonbusroutes.net/details.htm

As well as PVR, this also has service frequencies (see also the column explanations). This should make it possible to calculate the total number of services per timetable.

As you say, a good start hopefully.

HTH

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #42
11-12-2013 01:19 PM

I heard from somebody from TfL yesterday that as well as the full response in March, there is likely to be an interim response to the bus usage report.
One of the points this is likely to make (whether accurate or not is not for me to judge at this time) is that the survey that resulted in the list of overcrowded routes was self-selecting and therefore included a geographical bias that may not accurately reflect the overcrowding on bus services across London.

It is possible that more was done to publicise this survey in South East London (possibly in Val Shawcross's constituency - the chair of the transport committee at the GLA) than in other parts of London. It is also possibly that there are simply more bus users in South East London and we are more reliant on buses as our main form of public transport since there are no underground lines.

It will be interesting to see in March if there are any proposed solutions to the particular problems in South East London or whether TfL will make excuses and stick to bland generalisations across all of London.

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Mr_Numbers


Posts: 511
Joined: May 2012
Post: #43
11-12-2013 02:53 PM

Quote:
the survey that resulted in the list of overcrowded routes was self-selecting and therefore included a geographical bias

Maybe the respondents were "self-selecting" because they were so p***ed off with overcrowding and leapt on the opportunity to fill in a form! Not a feeling I've ever experienced on any bus going along the Strand, Regent Street or Oxford Street.

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George Crozier


Posts: 6
Joined: Nov 2013
Post: #44
14-04-2014 10:14 PM

Thought it might be worth updating this thread with the promising news I've just had from TfL that they are looking into providing additional 176 and 185 services.

Reply to my representations (made to TfL via Caroline Pidgeon (Lib Dem), who is Deputy Chair of the London Assembly’s Transport Committee), from the office of the MD of surface transport, as follows (my bolding):

Quote:
I would like to assure Mr Crozier that we regularly monitor demand on the bus network in a variety of ways, including surveys (we have conducted around 7000 in the last three years alone), use of Oyster card data, and reviews of customer and stakeholder correspondence. Although complaints about overcrowding typically comprise fewer than 5 per cent of the total comments we receive about buses, we take all such complaints seriously and address them in a variety of ways including changes to frequencies and bus sizes as well as measures to improve reliability.

We have now investigated the reports of over-crowding on routes 176 and 185, and I can confirm that both routes do look well used. We are therefore exploring the possibility of providing an additional journey or journeys on route 176, although I must emphasise that this proposal is provisional, and is subject to confirmation of costs from the operator and final approval. We are currently reviewing the existing passenger loading data for route 185 in closer detail, and depending on the outcome we will look at undertaking additional surveys or proposing a change in capacity if required. I will be happy to provide an update as soon as further information is available.

I’ve asked for clarification on likely timescale, both for the next update from TfL and for the actual provision of any additional services, and will post that here when I hear something.

Fingers crossed!

George Crozier
(Forest Hill Lib Dems)

This post was last modified: 14-04-2014 10:17 PM by George Crozier.

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Novels


Posts: 83
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #45
15-04-2014 08:43 AM

I hope it happens. I'll keep my fingers crossed too!

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,357
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #46
15-04-2014 11:50 AM

This data will ignore the fact that if a bus looks overcrowded, i don't get on and walk instead!

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #47
25-04-2014 10:21 AM

I've heard from a local resident that the 356 is going to be improved to provide services every 15 minutes during the day time, rather than every 20 minutes at present.

I believe that as part of the improvements there is an aim to improve reliability of services as well as frequency, so that the buses are more likely to turn up when they are meant to.

This was something that the Forest Hill Society had been recommending for a number of years, especially prior to the new residential and retail developments in Bell Green.

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George Crozier


Posts: 6
Joined: Nov 2013
Post: #48
25-04-2014 07:40 PM

Excellent news if that comes through. I'm still waiting for a reply from TfL to representations about the 356 stopping short of its destination and missing out stops in the Sydenham Hill area. Perhaps they're holding it back until they can confirm good news. it would be nice to think so!

George

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rbmartin


Posts: 798
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #49
25-04-2014 11:15 PM

I really hope the 356 receives the frequency enhancement. TfL have been looking at routes in this area and have already increased the frequency of the P13, which had until recently a similar timetable to the 356.

Ever since we lost the 194 from FH, the bus service between here and Bell Green has been dire.

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George Crozier


Posts: 6
Joined: Nov 2013
Post: #50
26-04-2014 11:32 PM

Have just received this from TfL in response to a request for information about the scheduling of the 356 bus during 2013.

Please refer to the following table listing the number of complete, curtailed and cancelled journeys for bus route 356.

Route 356

Direction towards Sydenham Hill

Date range 01 January to 31 December 2013

Scheduled journeys 17,236

Journeys run in full 16,291 94.52%

Journeys starting short but arriving at the terminus 528 3.06%

Total journeys arriving at the terminus 16,819 97.58%

Journeys started but not reaching the terminus 262 1.52%

Journeys cancelled 155 0.90%

Total journeys not reaching the terminus 417 2.42%


May get back to them to ask about the timings of journeys not run in full to see if they are concentrated at particular times of day.

George

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Nicola37


Posts: 11
Joined: Sep 2013
Post: #51
27-04-2014 09:27 PM

Hi there

I came across this thread a few days ago and breathed a sigh of relief that I am not going mad about local buses in se23 and surrounding areas!

Basically I moved to the area a couple of months back (from SW London) and perhaps a harsh word but I am astounded at the lack of bus services here! We are at the Bell Green end of Forest Hill (off Perry Hill) - I can't believe the irregularity of the 356 which runs from Forest Hill station up this way - with all these residential roads and lots more families/commuters to London moving in surely there is more need for a frequent service/s this way? We can walk all the way home from the station and not see a bus, whilst I love walking there are times when I would feel safer/drier/warmer to be on the bus! I had thought of contacting TFL but saw the last post on here that it might be increasing to every 15mins - great but still only 4 an hour!

I also travel towards Catford and have noticed problems this way aswell (202 and 181) overcrowded buses/waiting times etc though not as bad as the 356!

It is worth me getting in touch with TFL? It sounds like they are aware of the issues round here? Before I read the posts on the subject I did think if nobody speaks up nothing gets done - but sounds like plenty of people have already!

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rbmartin


Posts: 798
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #52
27-04-2014 09:43 PM

The Bell Green end of FH does get a raw deal public transport wise.

Fancy getting a train? Lower Sydenham is the nearest station within walking distance, yet is just inside Zone 4, so passengers pay more for tickets in comparison to those who are nearer to FH and HOP. The train service is dire with uneven gaps in service, but they do have direct services to Charing Cross (which will change from January 2015 when evening and Sunday services will permanently divert to Cannon Street).

To save money, you can go to Catford/Catford Bridge on an overcrowded 181 or 202 which can get stuck in traffic by St. Dunstans College, travel to Sydenham on the 194, 202, 450 or attempt to board the 356 to FH which is still irregular.

Sadly Nicola, the new 356 timetable which comes into action from May 3rd continues to be every twenty minutes is simply to improve reliability. The countdown feature online is useful though, so you can check online to see when the bus is due rather than standing at the bus stop for ages.

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #53
14-08-2014 11:22 AM

George Crozier has reported that there will actually be more 176 buses at peak times:

Quote:
Caroline [Pidgeon] and her office energetically took up the issue and we have now been told by TfL that they will be running additional services on the 176 towards central London during the morning rush hour and in the opposite direction in the evening rush hour. Buses will now be running every seven minutes rather than every eight minutes on during these peak times.

TfL told Caroline they could not “provide a precise timescale at present, but would like to assure Mr Crozier that we are working hard to implement this proposal as quickly as possible, subject to receipt of costs from the operator and approval.”

On the 185, TfL say they are still reviewing the data, and depending on the outcome will look at undertaking additional surveys or providing extra buses if required.

Source: http://upinforesthill.wordpress.com/2014...n-the-way/

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #54
14-08-2014 06:57 PM

So that works out to about 1 bus extra every hour that holds about 80 people sitting and a 100+ standing

Given that virtually every bus at those times of day has about 20 standing... we'll still have overcrowded buses but at least it may not pass quite as many bus stops...

Still... it is progress!

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Novels


Posts: 83
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #55
17-08-2014 11:26 AM

Thank you to all who made this happen.
It is a very small improvement but a while back there were talks of cutting back, so thank you again!

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #56
09-09-2014 09:42 AM

There is a new tool to see where every bus is London is in real time:
http://traintimes.org.uk/map/london-buses/#176

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Novels


Posts: 83
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #57
09-09-2014 02:57 PM

it is funny! To see that little red dot grinding along on the map and think it is a big heavy bus full of people!
Thanks for that Michael!

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Mr_Numbers


Posts: 511
Joined: May 2012
Post: #58
12-09-2014 03:31 PM

Fun stuff! There's a 185 just flown right over the train station and a 122 that's driven into the rear of the fire station.

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #59
12-09-2014 03:44 PM

These buses do seem to cut a few corners and occasionally take to the river rather than crossing a bridge.

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