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A plan to save the Honor Oak pub?
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baggydave


Posts: 390
Joined: May 2004
Post: #41
08-10-2013 09:34 PM

OK, this is only a fleeting post, but one to inform the debate.

As a nation we don't use our local pubs any more. Like our local shops we only moan when they are gone.

The Blythe is a brilliant exception. The Napier is also worth a visit, and if we did perhaps it would be more receptive to our needs. "oh if ony it did X and Y we would go"

The Chandos is just frightening. Such a shame from a lovely Victorian building.

The Ivy is something special, with a relatively unspoiled interior, from a golden age of pubs, and a history to match. It had started to get a decent clientele when the curse of the pub chain hit it. More valuable as housing. A second curse, on the Office of Fair Trading and the resultant Beer Orders Act 1989 that paved the way for the pub chains, that were even worse that the big brewers.

And I continue to struggle with the gentrification of SE London and the gastro pub. I shudder when I see what they have done, and continue to do, to the Woodhouse, the Clock, CPT (RIP) and the Rye Hotel. OK by all means serve food, but all four were popular before they had to do another refurb, than another refurb. I can't even drag myself down to East Dulwich any more. Well at least the Ivy is a refuge, and I can still go to the Nuns Head and Gowlett to get some relief.

Now the big question SE23. Is the YOHO really worth saving? To quote the Wonderful punk/folk band the Mekons: When they were converting the Forest Hill Hotel WHERE WERE YOU?

The Forest Hil Hotel was as wonderful at the Ivy, yet it had been run down and no one batted an eyelid when it shut. Did any of you know that this lovely building even existed? I could cry when I see the Greyhound in Sydenham where I used to see Vic Reeves before he was famous, and many others.

And as others have said, isn't HOP more worthy of a decent boozer (no station pub due to the Temperance movement, or something similar).

Finally, Hoopers Bar in East Dulwich closed in December after a few years of trying to draw the middle class punters in. Good beer, music and an attempt at pub food. Talk Talk control prevent me from accessing my favourite pub sites on my PC (the world has gone crazy), but there is a lament to it saying words to the effect "we provide you a perfect pub, yet you stay at home drinking cheap supermarket booze". Would the YOHO fair any better?

Proud to be part of the movement that saved the Ivy House.

Good bye and good night.

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 376
Joined: May 2005
Post: #42
09-10-2013 07:39 AM

Now that's a proper post!

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Bcm


Posts: 187
Joined: May 2010
Post: #43
09-10-2013 09:44 AM

There's definitely a place for some proper boozers but the sad reality is that most people do drink at home and only venture out for a "treat" which includes food. Antic has proven time and again that the right balance can be struck between gastro and boozer. Like it or not SE23 and it's clients have changed. More people are likely to be put off by a sky sports sign and traditional decor than be drawn in. You lament the change of the clock house yet it has gone from being pretty quiet at the weekend to needing a booking the day before if you want to eat. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but pubs need to provide the balance of services the community demands.

I only went in the Forest Hill Hotel once before it shut because of being relatively new to the area but sure don't remember it being lovely. The HO had the balance so close to right 3 years ago, but mismanagement sealed its fate. It is 100% worth saving. That the FHH was not saved is a shame but it should not be used as a reason or example of why not to save the HO, which in its own right is a grand Victorian building that would require minimal expenditure to make great again.

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Nellienoodle


Posts: 23
Joined: Feb 2013
Post: #44
09-10-2013 07:13 PM

Here here BCM!

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daveherne


Posts: 212
Joined: Jul 2012
Post: #45
09-10-2013 07:41 PM

i agree. a pub on honor oak high street with decent beer and food would me just fine. would pop in at the weekend quite often for lunch with family. sure it would also be popular with commuters after work.

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derbybill


Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #46
09-10-2013 07:47 PM

Something is happening in the pub because I noticed a sign saying "Keep the car park clear for the builders"
In the last three days there has been a white van and a car parked on the forecourt and I have noticed a light on in the upstairs corner room.
Anyone know what work is going on? Plain white vans don't give any clues.
I am also a bit worried about the increasing amount of rubbish that's piling up next to the clothes recycling bin.
Can we all "keep 'em peeled"?
And anyone remember who used to say that at the end of his programme?

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Red77


Posts: 3
Joined: Feb 2012
Post: #47
09-10-2013 08:21 PM

I agree with many of the comments posted here regarding the demise of a once decent, lively, dependable local pub ( period apx 18 months - 2 years back ). Every time I frequented the pub back then its location did not seem to be a problem as it was always really busy and did decent enough food and had an adequate selection of beers / ales. I can speak for all of my friends socially that we all value a decent local boozer or gastro pub but they are distinctly lacking within a ten minute walk of where I live in HOP. We always end up having to go to Forest Hill, East Dulwich, Peckham or down to The Brockley Jack ( not been in since its minor refurb).
Its good to see Tapatisserie has had another attempted makeover and the bar area has improved but IMHO its is neither a gastro pub or a local pub but still as there is little choice near the parade it does fill a gap. I for one would strongly support The Old Bank and / or The Honor Oak Pub if they were to become decent pubs or restaurants. I will watch with interest and would support the idea of The Honor Oak Pub becoming a Co operative Pub. The lack of a decent local pub is one of the few negatives of living in Honor Oak Park and I really hope this changes for the better soon !

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Erekose


Posts: 557
Joined: May 2010
Post: #48
09-10-2013 09:10 PM

Agreed re the HOP. It worked well for the first few years and then went downhill. It really should be able to do well in that location as it has no real nearby competition but the last time I visited it had completely lost the plot. I would be happy to use it again as the current choice is a 10 minute walk up to Forest Hill.

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Roachie


Posts: 1
Joined: Sep 2012
Post: #49
09-10-2013 09:36 PM

DerbyBill, it was Shaw Taylor at the end of Police 5

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derbybill


Posts: 122
Joined: Jan 2010
Post: #50
09-10-2013 11:04 PM

Thanks Roachie. Last Police 5 was broadcast in 1992 so you're obviously not one of the very young ones!
Remember the old jokes? "That's a nice watch you've got there, didn't I see it on Police 5 last night?"

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IWereAbsolutelyFuming


Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #51
10-10-2013 08:31 AM

I'm intrigued as to what happened at The Honor Oak. Back when it first opened under that name (2006/7 ?), although it wouldn't have been BaggyDave's cup of tea, it seemed well run (by the 2 Jamies) and I enjoyed going there. When I got married we held a party in their (unfinished) function room and they did us proud on catering and drink. We were by no means regulars and it is nothing close to being our local but whenever we went in the Jamies remembered us. After our second child was born we had less opportunity to go but eventually, when we did, the Jamies had gone, the atmosphere seemed different, the food wasn't as good and so on. We gave it another couple of goes and then gave up on it.

Anyone know what happened to the Jamies? I've wondered a few times if its apparent popularity hid a lack of profitability or whether the Jamies were nice blokes but struggled with the management of the business (although I seem to remember them having a lot of previous experience).

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Cheeky


Posts: 215
Joined: May 2009
Post: #52
10-10-2013 08:31 AM

I agree with BCM's views on pubs in the current climate. Times change, demographics change, styles change, taxes change, prices change, needs & wants change, the way people live their lives have changed. Unfortunately for some the 'Golden Age' of pubs is probably over, but luckily there are still pubs like the much praised Blythe Hill Tavern going strong which makes me happy, it deserves it. Others don't.

I didn't know what it was like before but the Rye Hotel is a great pub now in my opinion and all of the places that are mentioned by baggydave (apart from the Woodhouse which has been done badly in my opinion), have been refurbished to a high standard to reflect what the current demographic of the area want in a pub, it is quite clearly shown in their popularity since the refurbs, and no doubt takings, which is a must for any pub to survive in this day and age. Give people what they want (Build it and they will come).

I went to the Forest Hill Hotel a few times and always thought it could be a great place to keep open if only it could be run properly, it had so much potential, and I agree with baggydave that it's closure seemed to go unnoticed, swept under the carpet even. I did mention it on here at the time, that, along with a few other strange goings on with it under the radar and until now has continued to be overlooked.

Back on topic though, i'm all for a decent place to go for a drink (and food) in the area as it is something we are seriously lacking. The Honor Oak was showing a lot of potential but unfortunately it was all style (on the outside) and no substance, I couldn't believe the incompetence of the place when I last went in there, it was just not run well, no effort was made to create a welcoming atmosphere, the staff were useless the choices of drink were limited, and I even had to ask the barman to put some music on on one occasion as it had stopped about 15 minutes prior, there were about 8 people in there at the time. I never went again, i'm quite fickle like that.

If a pub is done properly I really believe it will be a success so please do try, I will sign any petition, form, website signup going. I was sat outside Hop Scotch in the summer as ridiculously that place was the best place to have a pint in the area and just sat watching the amount and type of people walking past, people may be surprised to hear, there are lots, they all just go home though, there's nowhere decent to go.

I strongly believe however, for a pub these days to be a success it does have to offer something a bit more (especially a pub the size of The Honor Oak) , which is why 'Gastro' pubs are a success, as long as the food is good and the atmosphere is right people will frequent the place, it doesn't have to just be good pub food (Burgers, Steaks, Roasts etc) it could be pizza (The Gowlett, The Half Moon, The Actress). Just something, people would come along way to spend their money.

I still think The Old Bank needs sorting as a priority, and if The General Napier had an injection of something new, Honor Oak would be a great place to have a drink. (alas, The Chandos is a lost cause for the majority of forum readers I fear).

Good luck

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,412
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #53
11-10-2013 03:49 PM

What usually goes wrong with pubs these days is the landlords put the rent up to unrealistic levels.

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Mr_Numbers


Posts: 513
Joined: May 2012
Post: #54
15-10-2013 12:39 PM

Front page news, folks!



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Mr_Numbers


Posts: 513
Joined: May 2012
Post: #55
19-10-2013 04:04 PM

Ipswich pub launches community share issue...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-24523462

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Margo100


Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #56
20-10-2013 04:10 PM

Hi,

I had this idea months ago and drove my partner mad talking about it and was unproductive in pursuing the idea further. To be honest my initial thought was the Old Bank as I am sick of the greedy HOP landlords holding our high street to ransom through charging crazy rents. Having read these posts, I believe that the idea should now capture both the Honor Oak pub and the old bank. We may even be able to tap into public funding if we were to create job opportunities for the wider community etc. I for one will happily invest in both initiatives and would be prepared to participate in a bid for the old bank.

HOP in my view is different from ED and maybe even FH as I think it has managed to retain its sense of community. The important thing for me would be to support community led ventures that appeal to the diverse vibrant community that is HOP!

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Belle


Posts: 88
Joined: Dec 2009
Post: #57
21-10-2013 09:00 AM

Margo - I think a lot of people in Forest Hill would disagree with you about the implied lack of community spirit in Forest Hill! While the centre of Forest Hill is certainly less compact that Honor Oak, there is community spirit in abundance!

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #58
21-10-2013 09:23 PM

Hi Margo I completely agree with Belle. I feel that Forest Hill has an amazing community feel which is why I love living and trading here. I also think The Forest Hill Society do an amazing job for the local community too.

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Margo100


Posts: 3
Joined: Jul 2009
Post: #59
22-10-2013 06:41 PM

Apologies for any offence caused! I am a huge fan of FH. I certainly don't wish to distract attention away from the topic of this posting which is an incredibly important one. Regards. M

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 654
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #60
22-10-2013 10:10 PM

I live in Forest Hill, and we have an inspiring and passionate local community-Thats one of the reasons I love living here.

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