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Farmers' market in the Horniman Gardens
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edpaff


Posts: 51
Joined: Apr 2012
Post: #61
01-11-2013 09:29 AM

Sunday opening - wouldn't this conflict with the FHSoc's monthly market at the station? Also, I'd be a bit concerned that people might hold off coming into town until Sunday, skipping Saturday completely and possibly not helping the situation!

Market clusters - I like the idea of the clusters of types of market, but I'm not sure FH could sustain a weekly non-food market. I used to attend the SEE3 market outside the Pools, which never really took off (I believe a combination of difficulty securing dates from the Pools operator, and limited marketing/awareness).

I would have thought that the only quick solution would be for struggling traders, where applicable, to pitch up themselves. Surely the Horniman/market organisers would prefer to relax some rules regarding products on offer in order to avoid unhappy traders in town? I'm sure that sweets would go down an absolute storm up there, considering the number of families milling about.

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star


Posts: 39
Joined: Sep 2010
Post: #62
01-11-2013 01:28 PM

For what it is worth I am much more likely to come and buy more on a Saturday as it will cover the whole weekend rather than go to Sainsburys or another market. It doesn't mean I wouldn't come on a Sunday, I probably would, but more for a potter than to do my weekly shop. A poll of one is always useful (!)

I am totally for opening up the market more to local traders. Making it bigger and better is hopefully likely to bring more and more people. I would love to see little bags of retro sweets for example (and they might make some good xmas gifts!)

In terms of the local shops. I am also a big fan of those! (I want everything it seems!). My shopping habits have changed a lot and I try to buy much more locally including gifts (in hop mainly). I have to confess to not really understanding how the market has had such an impact. I assume it must be footfall as apart from the deli the competition seems to be mainly to Sainsburys? Are there other factors (time of year or half term) that might also be contributing? Help understanding please?!

Hopefully we can find a solution that works for everyone. Espif the market becomes perm.

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isaglanzer


Posts: 55
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #63
01-11-2013 01:38 PM

Would agree that Sunday not as good for doing a proper shop, and also people maybe less likely to pick up Sunday lunch than Saturday lunch on the hoof in the market. Would still support it if on a Sunday though.

Having the nice traders from F Hill in the market would be fantastic if that were logistically possible - I seem to remember Doopo Doopo were actually there the first week? There's quite a lot more space, I would have thought.

Also seems wrong to suggest that in it's current form the market is unconnected to SE23 - there are already the Butchery, Mr Muffin, Forest Hill Cakes at least. The farmers themselves would be very unlikely to be from Forest Hill unless the One Tree Hill allotments are more productive than I imagined!

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ryananglem


Posts: 167
Joined: Apr 2009
Post: #64
01-11-2013 04:07 PM

For us - with a young child, we would be going to a park or some open area anyway so the market on a Saturday is perfect. The only difficult thing is that cycling to the Horniman is not the easiest from the Perry Vale side if you are trying to avoid traffic (as we are with a child on the back). However, the same is true for getting to Dartmouth road.

To be honest its not taking us away from shopping on Dartmouth road, but probably Mayow Park and Blythe Hill are getting less of our custom recently.

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isaglanzer


Posts: 55
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #65
02-11-2013 04:24 PM

Aga's little deli were there this morning from Dartmouth Rd, and a craft stall and a chocolatier (so sweets presumably possible?) and all sorts of people really - if that were somehow possible I would have thought it would be great if as many as possible of the interesting SE23 traders were interested. It certainly doesn't look like an event that's likely to go away any time soon.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #66
02-11-2013 08:46 PM

MightyMouse to answer your questions I can tell you the organiser's are a lovely local family renting the space at The Horniman Gardens.
The shops suffering mostly are yes on Dartmouth Road, but others are too. I am posting here on behalf of others aswell as myself as i'm more worried about them than me, and YES I want the whole area to thrive, which is why I'm so concerned and making everyone aware of the situation.
In answer to your last paragraph, this is really not what my shop is about, and never was. I'm not interested in making lots of money, just a decent living and making FH which I love a great place to be. Bottom line for me personally and the reason I can't sleep at night is, I just can't shut my shop It would upset too many kids and I don't have the heart to do that. So I will keep going.

eddpaff In answer to your question the FHFF could possibly change to a Saturday and as it's in the middle of the town centre it brings more custom to local shops rather than take away. I will add I also think The Forest Hill Society do an amazing job for everyone in the area.

Isaglanze I love Aga too, her toasties are amazing!

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #67
02-11-2013 09:28 PM

I'm having an informal meeting tomorrow evening with yes another who cares a lot about FH and yes on a Sunday evening (lucky my kids are not back from holiday till later) when we shouldn't be working to look at what we can do to make everything work for everyone. Sure we will be checking this thread to look at all suggestions so please post all pros and cons you can think off. Thanks!

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #68
02-11-2013 10:17 PM

Im with isaglanzer on this one- I dont see how a Saturday market really impacts on the footfall elsewhere in Forest Hill apart from Sainsburys. Our own meagre purchases would only have been bought there. I would have thought it brings more people into the area and to the Horniman. Its pretty safe for children to run around and its very sociable. Moving it to a Sunday wouldnt feel the same. I dont therefore think its going to put FH town centre out of business.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #69
02-11-2013 10:39 PM

Roz sadly it is which is why I'm asking this question, and trying to make it work for everyone. My takings are down 75% thats a lot which have gone weekly down by 35%, 40%, 50% then 75% since the market started. never in a year and a half since trading has this happened. I have took the least takings ever in these last Saturdays. I just can't close, I will stay open till I no longer can as I can't upset the kids. I'll run at a loss if I have too for as long as I can.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #70
02-11-2013 10:47 PM

Also why do you think Aga had to go to the market today? I know why, ask her and I'm sure she will tell you.

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roz


Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #71
02-11-2013 11:06 PM

I dont know who Aga is, sorry, or what sort of business you have so cant comment on the correlation. From a consumer point of view
, I think the market is fab, largely because of the location but also the prices of the basics which are cheaper than Sainsburys and it gives us a reason to get some fresh air and exercise in the gardens. I wouldnt otherwise shop in Dartmouth Rd or London Road as its difficult to manage with my kids. So its not displacing our expenditure locally other than Sainsburys.

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 654
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #72
03-11-2013 07:49 PM

Since so many people seem to mention shopping with kids in tow being their main reason for limiting their shopping in the area to the farmers market and not choosing to venture along dartmouth road,
perhaps we should consider opening a family/kid focussed market near the pools, offering face painting stalls, perhaps a bring and buy kids-wear and toy stall, and offer kid/family meal deals in the local cafe's and shops on the market day.
As we don't have kids these are just some ideas that I feel may work, especially as the mornings get colder it could be nice to offer kid-friendly breakfast deals as families may not want to hang around in the park for so long.

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MightyMouse


Posts: 122
Joined: Apr 2012
Post: #73
03-11-2013 08:28 PM

Or, building on nottinghillbilly's post, promote Dartmouth Road as the place to be on a Saturday morning if you want to do your shopping in kid-free peace. "Come drink coffee in our tantrum-free cafés! Browse Doopo Doopo without any Jemimas or Tarquins running riot! Indulge your nostalgia in the sweetie shop, without any kids present reminding you that technically you're actually too grown up to now have a QUARTER OF EVERYTHING YOU EVER LOVED."

(I'm being facetious. Kinda.)

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #74
03-11-2013 11:36 PM

Nottinghillbilly this is my thoughs too, Just to let all know The Horniman came to speak to me today and want to work with local traders, to make everyone happy, which I'm really happy about, because it means they care. To make everything work for everyone we all need to work together which we can do now. Only problem now is that Lee dosn't want to know he refused to open the door to chat with me and FHFF toinight!

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #75
04-11-2013 12:04 AM

I will but try. FH means to much to me I can't leave this alone. I'll post more ideas tomorrow. Anyone for music to get a little vibe going on? with yes maybe kid friendly stalls aswell as others?

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #76
04-11-2013 12:10 AM

Mighty Mouse I don't know who you are but I think a bit of both would work.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #77
04-11-2013 12:33 AM

If no one else wants to save the high street. I do, and sorry to say I will keep at it no matter what. I know peeps will either love me or hate me for this, but I won't stop as I have to think about my fellow traders that need more support than me. Off to tweet now because I have too.

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Fandango


Posts: 89
Joined: Nov 2008
Post: #78
04-11-2013 09:35 AM

"Also why do you think Aga had to go to the market today? I know why, ask her and I'm sure she will tell you."

Aga saw competition and an opportunity to diversify their income stream, so stepped up to compete.

The pure facts of business is that there will always be competition, and unless a business brings something to the table that is perceived by the consumer to be of value then they will always falter.

Competition is healthy, and in this area is a positive revelation which will only provide a long term boost for FH and nearby areas.

If a competitive business opened up across the road or next door, what would you do? You either give up, or you improve your offering to stand out. A farmers market is no different.

The question to ask is what can I do to take advantage of the situation, not what can I do to to bemoan it.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #79
04-11-2013 01:56 PM

Fandango you are right in what you say, but I just want everything to work for everyone, maybe that's not possible, maybe it is. I also want to say I think I was wrong in saying what I did last sentence post #75 I shouldn't expect others to feel as strongly as I do on this subject. I must remind you all that I want the market to thrive and expand and it is a great addition to FH, but I don't want the shops to suffer and possibly close due to this.

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nottinghillbilly


Posts: 654
Joined: Dec 2010
Post: #80
04-11-2013 07:49 PM

I really feel all locals should feel as passionately about our small independent shops as p1971 does.
I love the farmers market, but I also love our Dartmouth road shops.
The market is great at the moment but market traders come and go and who's to say that a few weeks down the line our fave veg stall won't be replaced by an average 'find anywhere' chutneys and jams stall, or someone selling overpriced cupcakes.
Then people would miss the likes of Agas and Sugar Mountain if they had to close.
We all need to brainstorm as a community to think of ways the two can co-exist side by side without detriment to anyones cash-flow and to make Forest hill an even lovelier place to live than it is already.
This area has changed for the better partly due to the appearance of attractive niche businesses on the Dartmouth road, lets not see them borded up or replaced by chicken shops and nail bars.

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