Though you lot were educated and well read. Clearly not. Now BD is an old trot, couldn't care a fig about market economics but is a realist.

You voted out the last vaguely socialist government in 1979 and since then had more or less pro-market governments (oddly enough Mrs T did not start off than much of a free marketeer I beileve, although someone will correct me no doubt about Keynes (Sp?).)

So the cost we pay is loosely the cost it is to run, no doubt helped a little by our Council tax, central government, plus paying for some of the neglect in former decades, some of the botched initiatives and no doubt remaining inefficiencies from the good old days of state ownership.

Our Ken, who wanted control of the underground, probably never realised that it needed so much spending on it. Of course he got control of the buses which he simplified and reduced the fares, never quite down to the 40p he promised in outer London, apart from on free buses like the number 12. But go elshwhere in the UK and bus fares seem to be expensive. Older readers will remember Ken's fairs fare from 20 years ago when he hacked London Transport fares, by subsidising from the rates, until the outer boroughs revolted (oh dear I seem to be sneering at Bromley man again).

And the irony is that France, who of course were instrumental in setting up the then Common market, do their best not to follow the free market with lots of interventionist tricks, controls and subsidies.

I am echoing Baboonery but wanted a rant anyway. And if France is so good TJ why don't you join the cheese eating surrender monkeys. Now that is a for a different thread.

And if I want to get on my hobby horse it will be on the way they forced Oyster on us and the lack of proper integration of our public transport system, - go to Budapest where trolly bus (remember those Brian?), bus, tram, undergound, overground and even a funicular (sp?) all have common nodes (intersections) and one very cheap travel pass/ticker

That's told you. "Thank you BD"