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Tube pricing
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Toffeejim


Posts: 84
Joined: Nov 2004
Post: #1
03-06-2008 11:29 PM

Just back from Paris. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that single tube fares were not the normal four pounds but in fact a paltry one euro fifty. Can somebody explain the disparity to me please? Surely these Frenchies need to wake up to a good money making opportunity?

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #2
04-06-2008 09:47 AM

It is our current governments way of taxing us to death.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #3
04-06-2008 10:44 AM

A captive market.

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #4
04-06-2008 10:56 AM

I was forced to get a PAYG Oyster so as not to be stung on occasional tube journeys. On the other hand, if you're going into town by train, you might as well get the travelcard to include the tube.

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Johnc


Posts: 138
Joined: Jan 2007
Post: #5
04-06-2008 11:03 AM

I thought that prices were the responsibility of the TFL board, who in turn are appointed by the Mayor?

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #6
04-06-2008 11:31 AM

I think it's an absolute nonsense and I feel sorry for people maybe from abroad who don't understand the whole oyster thing and end up paying out a small fortune.

I have two problems with oyster. One, if I fotget it one day, I have to either buy a new card and top it up, or pay ?4.00 (sometimes to travel three stops!). Two, I would use it to cross London for work purposes, but I don't think the firm have worked out how to reinburse oyster debits yet - it's much easier to submit a receipt, for which I have to buy a ticket for ?4.00. Actually, I paid ?6.80 in peak time last week to get from London Bridge to Kings Cross.

Anyone with solutions?

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #7
04-06-2008 11:37 AM

?4 is the cash fare, a single can cost ?2 or ?1.50 (depending on time of day) if you use PAYG on Oyster. The exorbitant cash price is a mechanism to get people to switch to Oyster PAYG instead of buying paper tickets. Same with buses: 90p on Oyster, ?2 cash.

Jon14: re receipts for PAYG fares - I think there's a way of printing out a mini statement or something at Oyster ticket machines. Never done it myself but it's come up in conversation at work because of people needing to reclaim fares.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #8
04-06-2008 12:22 PM

Or your firm could give you an Oyster card (topped up by their credit card) purely for business use as mine does for some people.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #9
04-06-2008 12:54 PM

I paid 32.90 this morning for a single from FH to London Bridge which is a journey of a good few miles.

I then paid ?4 to travel between Bank and St Pauls a journey of under a mile.

Dont quite know how the government can say we have a great transport system when clearly we dont.

Now the Lib Dems want to charge 25p per mile if they get into power in order to encourage us to use public transport...please!!!

The reason I raise the Lib Dem idea is that my train stopped at Honour Oak and terminated there due to a power failure which effected the entire line. I had to get the wife to take me to Lewisham and then get the DLR, what a sham.

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #10
04-06-2008 01:09 PM

Londondrz Wrote:
I paid 32.90 this morning for a single from FH to London Bridge which is a journey of a good few miles.


You were ripped off! ?2.90 would've been expensive this morning!

Londondrz Wrote:
I then paid ?4 to travel between Bank and St Pauls a journey of under a mile.


You were ripped off! I would have walked. I just can't bring myself to pay ?4 for one stop.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #11
04-06-2008 01:16 PM

Woops sorry that should have been ?2.90, slip of the finger. Normally I would have walked but just couldnt be bothered after all the rubbish with having to get into London.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #12
04-06-2008 01:19 PM

The Paris metro is cheaper for a number of reasons. Primarily because the relationship between the customer and revenue is less clear. 80% of its operating costs are subsidised by central or regional government, a vastly greater figure than anybody would accept here. Also because they don't have as close a relationship between demand and supply as we do: LU has always put fares up over inflation to regulate use as and when the network was getting too busy at its pinch points and (until the last increase) noticed a fairly elastic response. Paris doesn't do this.

The ?4 for a single is massive, yes, and is part of the Oyster marketing drive, as well as crowd control (if you're fit and able, I don't see how getting the tube from Bank to St Pauls would be quicker than walking anyway). Essentially, RATP want to get people on to their network, and TfL wants to get people off the busy bits of theirs.

And they can't be expected to build a fare structure around people forgetting their Oyster card. A system of reclaims, yes.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #13
04-06-2008 01:20 PM

Londondrz Wrote:
It is our current governments way of taxing us to death.


Lazy, and completely untrue.

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #14
04-06-2008 02:20 PM

jon14 Wrote:
I would use it to cross London for work purposes, but I don't think the firm have worked out how to reinburse oyster debits yet - it's much easier to submit a receipt, for which I have to buy a ticket for ?4.00.

Anyone with solutions?


It's complicated, but if your company will accept it, you can print out a Journey History at oyster.tfl.gov.uk once you have registered you card, bought an online top up AND then collected said top up when you touch your card on a card reader at the start of a Tube, DLR or tram journey from your selected station.

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Londondrz


Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #15
04-06-2008 02:22 PM

Why should we have to have an Oyster card, what was wrong with the old system?

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #16
04-06-2008 02:26 PM

Baboonery Wrote:
The ?4 for a single is massive, yes, and is part of the Oyster marketing drive, as well as crowd control (if you're fit and able, I don't see how getting the tube from Bank to St Pauls would be quicker than walking anyway). Essentially, RATP want to get people on to their network, and TfL wants to get people off the busy bits of theirs.

And they can't be expected to build a fare structure around people forgetting their Oyster card. A system of reclaims, yes.


The London Underground do not care about overcrowding, that's for sure. If they do get worried about it, they shut the barriers and make you wait in the station. ?4 for a paper ticket has little to do with that.

I'm sure revenue has something to do with it. ?32 million was raised last year from Oyster fines, ?18 million of which was due to people not touching out. They only repaid ?800,000.

High ticket prices = more people using Oyster. More people using Oyster = more fines. More fines = more revenue.

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nevermodern


Posts: 653
Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #17
04-06-2008 02:26 PM

It gets people through the system more quickly and there's less need to queue up for tickets, meaning less queues all round.

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #18
04-06-2008 02:30 PM

nevermodern Wrote:
It gets people through the system more quickly and there's less need to queue up for tickets, meaning less queues all round.


If that's true, which I'm sure it is, most will use Oyster anyway (as 80% already do). That doesn't mean for the odd occasion when I want to use the tube (or when I need to get somewhere quickly or unexpectedly) and don't have my Oyster card with me, I should have to pay ?4 for the priviledge.

It doesn't make any sense.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #19
04-06-2008 02:34 PM

They can't build a fare structure around you not having your Oyster Card with you. Their job is not to protect passengers from their own stupidity or forgetfulness. Carry it with you!

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jon14


Posts: 145
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #20
04-06-2008 02:52 PM

Baboonery Wrote:
They can't build a fare structure around you not having your Oyster Card with you. Their job is not to protect passengers from their own stupidity or forgetfulness. Carry it with you!


But what is the 'fare structure' (and that's a point, there doesn't seem to be much of a structure) supposed to achieve? The only two reasons given are reducing overcrowding (which it doesn't) and marketing - which isn't really the point.

Streamlining the process to make it quicker to get in and out sounds plausible, but having thought about that, it really doesn't take any longer to get in and out using a ticket. No longer in fact.

It all comes down to revenue, doesn't it?

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