I would like to know too - whilst my 4.5 year old loves everything in this park my 14 month old is not really catered for with no swings, (especially as she HATES the sand, strange child), so it means trips here are usually quite short.

Maybe we should start a fund for the toilets and swings as suggested at the FHSoc AGM? Does anybody have any idea of the costs involved? If each affected parent donated ?5, this would get the fund off to a good start.

This would probably require a 'Friends of the Beach' organisation to be set up first, but once that had been done the local multiples could be approached. Of the local chains, Sainsbury's operate 18 trusts, Abbey have the Abbey Charitable Trust which will make grants for Community regeneration and Barclays' employees can get donation matching once the Friends had been approved as a legitimate organisation.

A cynical old friend says Lewisham Council removed the toilet block & swings is to avoid supervisory staff costs. New Forester is probably correct that local people will have to dip into their own pockets to kick start any action. We should focus on building toilets first; this is a public health issue. The new toilet block should be an eco-friendly design & built near "The Beach" & water & electricity connections at the foot of Sydenham Hill SE23. I'm prepared to put my money down. Anyone else willing?

I'm willing but think that some sort of Trust is a good idea first as there may be tax efficiencies to be gained ie like charities get tax relief on donations. Some of the local businesses such as Sainsburys would be a great idea as suggested. There would be lots of support from local parents I'm sure as well. I'm keen to get involved but will be very time poor over the next few months but will do what I can. I also think we need to look afresh at the design; its not good to have the beach area so close to a major road where the gate is usually left open so would like to suggest some sort of cattle gate ( like you have on country walks etc) which is staggered to stop kids running straight out into the road but allows people and buggies to come and go. As a parent of a small child I would like to be able to leave her to get on with playing there and to allow her some independence but she has run straight out the gate before when the ice cream van appears. Thankfully she stops at the van but its worrying all the same.

I gather that swings are going out of fashion in Europe for safety reasons ie small children running in front of them and getting walloped in the head) but not sure if thats the reason these were removed here. Greenwich Park has installed barriers in front of theirs. My friend who lives in Paris says that they are removing them in all public parks there. Perhaps some of the local councillors could comment on this?

So,is it going to be ' Friends of the Beach' or 'Amis du Plage( or even de la Plage).....New Forester, you sound as if you are dead keen to get going- fancy being the Chair?

I think that one way or another the council will provide toilets in the Triangle. There are a couple of ways that this can be done that are under consideration. Not that this should stop anybody from continuing to work to make the park better, and making sure the council do provide toilets this time round.

Wow it's great there is so much enthusiasm to improve the park. It is fantastic, but the lack of toilets have caused us many problems - a walk up to the Horniman is simply not feasible when you are a desperate toddler, which is why the bushes have been receiving rather a lot of visits from parents with little other choice. Not ideal but what other option is there? Better in the bushes than the sandpit....

There would be huge amount of local support for any improvements. I'm the Rep for Forest Hill NCT, and I know that many of our members use the sandpit, so I'd be happy to let them know about any sort of campaigns you are doing. I'm afraid I don't have much time to volunteer, but happy to support it.

I'm also quite keen to look at the feasibility of a One O Clock Club on this site. I believe the nearest are Mayow Park/Peckham Rye which are very oversubscribed. Having a substantially increased presence there would be likely to attract more people , improve security and also justify expenditure on toilets. I am thinking of a building reinstated on the site of the former toilet block or the existing cafe site which presumably would be easy to relocate or append to a Club building.

Does this appeal to anyone else? There are all sorts of funds around at the minute for play and early years so it might be a good time to start talking to the Council about possibilities.

Again, it would be good for any councillors reading this to comment. Its a sure vote winner for whoever gets a result!

Roz, you would have to sell me the idea of a One O'Clock Club!

The ones I've seen seem rather exclusive (eg Peckham Rye Common where it's surrounded by gates that are locked when not in use - which is a real shame for the kids who are playing by the cafe in full sight of sad lonely playground equipment.... ) and I'm not sure there is room in the Horniman Triangle for a separate area, if that's what you mean.

However, the lack of toilets is becoming quite an issue for me, (well my son actually..).

Not sure what sort of supervisory costs are involved with swings - and certainly the loos in some public parks don't appear to have had a member of staff anywhere near them!

I suspect that if the council is aware of just how many kids are forced to use the bushes they may start to see it as a health issue and hopefully do something about it quickly. A park without a toilet block is just not on.

I have say that the One O'Clock clubs I use are very good and I go there a lot.
Yes, the one in Peckham has to be locked when it is closed, but considering that it is open mornings and afternoons five days a week I don't think that is too bad! It has to close at some points so that the staff can tidy and clean and have a break, and if it was just open constantly the equipment would just get trashed. Plus it is completely free (Southwark Council....) and anyone can go to it. The one in Crystal Palace is really good too (you do have to pay though), the staff and activities are excellent. It would be great to have one down at the Triangle.

I agree with Roz about the gates at the Triangle. Even a gate that had a simple sliding lock would prevent children running into the road, and you could let them play more freely.

OK clearly I have been very unlucky and missed the point of One O'Clock clubs! Or maybe it's sour grapes that they never seem to be that welcoming or even open when I'm not working!

Anyway.

I'm going to follow Londondrz's suggestion (don't faint!!) and contact the Council myself about the lack of loos. And swings.

I agree that the staff at the Peckham one can sometimes seem a little distant - the staff at Crystal Palace one are just lovely though (maybe they are paid better!)

Good idea about contacting the Council re the loos, maybe a letter writing campaign could work! Anyway know who is the right person to write to?

The park at Hilly Fields has toilets, and last time I was there there was a very nice lady cleaning them. Not sure if they are always in attendance though.

Anyone at Lewisham Countil in a bog standard job

Well I've done a complaint form. However I'm now waiting for the jobsworth council employee (tautological statement??!!) to turn up and tell off the parents who are letting their children wee in a bush.

Parents (and toddlers) who are concerned should come to the Forest Hill ward assembly on 7th October. One of the projects for the Mayor's Fund that we will be asked to vote on is ?3k to develop detailed plans a planning application for a toilet in the park. This will help speed up the council returning the toilet to the park.

A week later, at the Forest Hill Society AGM, we have Councillor Wise speaking to us about green spaces (her council cabinet portfolio) and you may wish to ask about the council's timetable for the building work.

Argh. I'm not available on 7th October. Can we send a vote by proxy or something of that ilk?

No. You have to be there to weigh it against the other bidders - for example you might prefer additional hedge planting on the border of the park and london road which I think will also be in the list.

Michael, is that ?3k just to develop plans or ?3k to actually build the toilet?

Oh shame. Unless, ironically, I can find a babsysitter and send my uninformed husband, that's me out, then.

People should also contact Cllr John Russell as he is working on the issue of toilets at the Triangle. I spoke to him today about the potential for a One O clock club. The main drawback is the lack of an existing building there so advised to look at other options on existing council premises such as Rockbourne Youth Club and the Horniman Dutch Barn. I have written to Janet Vitmayer about this to see what potential there may be. It will still have to be run and staffed by Council employees and subject to a whole host of regulations. There wouldn't be much money in it for the Horniman so it may not be worthwhile for them to tie up their premises in this way. Anyway, we'll see what can be done! It would be good however to have some further feedback from local parents about whether such a facility would be used and what increases there are likely to be in the birth rate in Forest Hill over the next few years. ( Jane2, would you have any info on this?).

My concern about treating the Triangle in a piecemeal way is that whilst you may solve one problem you as likely as not create another. There are a number of problems including lack of toilets and safety that need attention here so we should really be considering all of these in the round.