I'm not sure if they are suggesting an exit with no steps on the Perry Vale side - looks like they'll put the gate at the bottom of the existing stairs.

Yes I read it that there will be steps but gates at bottom of the stairs.
Until we know how many hours a day these gates will be manned we are not sure what will happen.
I do believe it is vital that they stop people using the line free of charge. These people tend also to be the most anti social travellers ( feet on seat , loud music etc )

Following a meeting at Forest Hill station yesterday, it appears that the plan is to install barriers at the bottom of the stairs in 'early summer' this year. This is certainly a better solution that the locked / manned gate that was being proposed, but we have asked them to take another look at the potential for moving the exit to the Perry Vale car park.

Michael

Thanks for all your efforts

Who was at the meeting and what was their reaction to the proposal to move the exit? Was it too much trouble to negotiate access rights with Lewisham council? We need to keep pushing the option to move the Perry Vale exit, especially with the need to extend the platforms to cope with 12 coaches.

Who should we lobby in the council?

With thanks to Michael, who was at the meeting, here is the latest reply from Tfl. It looks like Tfl like the car park option, but are worried that it could all take too long to get sorted out.

Dear Tom

Thank you for your email.

Following the meeting on 16 April 2008, Transport for London (TfL) is now considering two options for the downside.

As previously described in my initial response using the space at the base of the stairs is the first option. We are hoping to have outlined plans in two weeks.

The second option is to use the exit via the south end of the platform into the council car park. There are a few issues around access through Network Rail land by sub station; the movement of passengers near Driver Only Operation (DOO) screens and the safety of passengers walking through the car park.

Next step to finalise and ironing out the issue is to contact Network Rail.

TfL is however considering option 1 as it will be easier to progress in the time available to us.

I hope the information I have provided has been helpful. Please feel free to contact me should there be any future queries.

Kind regards

Well, whichever option TfL go for, it will still be a massive improvement over Southern's original plan to completely close the exit on platform 2. Many thanks to Michael and all who have been lobbying Southern and TfL about this.

I have to admit I was not at the station personally, but Peter was there on behalf of the Forest Hill Society and with local politicians and representatives of Sydenham Society. It was a good meeting and it does sound like we will be getting a better solution than the proposal to keep the gate shut most of the day. Well done to Southern Railways for listening.

Michael - Perhaps I've missed something but isn't all that's being promised by Southern is that they may place the gate at the base of the steps rather than at the platform exit. The key point surely is how long the gate - wherever it is placed - will be open.

If the gate is to be moved but remains shut for long parts of the day, what's been gained?

Perhaps I have missed something, from reading my emails on the subject I understood that they were talking about Oyster barriers at the bottom of the stairs rather than a crude gate as we have today at the top of the stairs. I assumed that the point of moving the gate/barrier to the bottom of the stairs is to provide automated Oyster controlled system rather than people standing at the gate to manually swipe.

I agree that these exit needs to be available at all times that trains run, they did also like the idea of an exit further down the platform, although this is highly unlikely to be available in June this year.

I shall make sure I find out further details of the current proposals for the gate/gates at the bottom of the stairs and times of operation.

An exit through the car park would also save them the cost of installing lifts at the bridge over the lines.

It does seem that Nasaroc is correct that the gate will still only be open for a limited period, which really is not good news for people on the east of the railway. We will continue to press the case for opening up access from the Perry Vale car park.

Michael, it's not just people on the East side who will suffer. When they closed the gate on platform 2 for maintenance purposes (yeh right), platform 2 became extremely crowded and IMHO quite dangerous following a bit of argy-bargy on the platform.

If they have Oyster barriers at the bottom of the steps these will have to be manned for safety reasons. The only way the station will be able to close them off will be to keep the gate at the top of the stairs locked. It's my guess the powers that be will not want to man these barriers too often, therefore the gate at the top will be more than often locked.

I was at the meeting in the FH station Car Park by Platform 2. Several of us there heard the Southern rep and the person from TfL say to each other, words to the effect that 'this would be a much cheaper option' But a rep from LBC said that there would be problems making the possible new entrance, via the Car Park, wheel chasir accessible. Apparently the gradient from Perry Vale to the new entrance would need to be less than 5%.

As, sometime in the future, the platforms at FH station will be lengthened for 10 - 12 coach trains, a new manned entrance via the Car Park, would seem a good idea.

its a crazy world where a gradient of a bit more than 5% is seen as a worse problem than a steep flight of steps!

The FH and Sydenham Societies are working together on a campaign to make sure that all of our station entrances are kept open.

It always seems that things have gone quiet when nothing appears on local forums for a period but I can assure you that Michael A and Peter I (of the FH Soc) and Sydenham Society members have had a number of meetings with politicians and officials in the last ten days which we hope will result in a retreat by Southern in their plan to shut off gates at both FH and Sydenham stations.

The Sydenham Society has leafleted our station and set up an on-line petition covering Sydenham. It can be viewed at the link below and we have already collected over 250 signatures in just 3 days.

Barry Milton

http://www.gopetition.com/online/18722.html

The latest information I have from Southern Railways (after lots of confusing information), is that the existing gate on the Perry Vale exit will be closed for most of the day. The only exception will be when ticket inspectors are present between 3pm-8pm on weekdays, during the evening peak period, at these times they will manually check everybody's ticket as they exit from the station.

Outside of these hours the gate will be locked to prevent people evading their fare. Passengers alighting on the southbound platform will need to cross over the footbridge and use automated barriers in the station building. The barriers will be in operation for the majority of the day (probably from 6:30am-8pm) when they will be manned. When they are no manned the barriers will be open to allow people through (even when they are evading their fare).

This will make Forest Hill station less accessible than it is currently as people with buggies will need to use at least two sets of stairs rather than one, plus the need to go through the underpass or round under the railway at the South Circular.

I can understand why Southern feel they need to make life a misery for passengers, just to catch those few who try to evade fares. What I really don't understand is why after 8pm the station will be unmanned but only the barriers on one side will be opened - why not open both sides?

Your thoughts and suggestions are most welcome on this forum or this evening at the Forest Hill Society general meeting.

On the odd day when I have a few sherberts after work and leave the bike in the office I must remember to get a train after 7.50pm to avaid having to pay for the train

Bonkers, pure bonkers.

and if it's before 8pm - go to Penge and get the bus back, that station's never manned ever!

Seriously though - it's my bet the reason they want to keep the south bound exist closed when the station isnt manned - is probably because they will hardly ever have staff at these gates during the peak time, despite what they say today. Therefore what sense is there in opening it at all? It will mean a member of staff will have to walk across the bridge and lock/unlock the gate daily. This will add extra burden to their daily chores, especially as the regular ticket police are unlikely to be there to do it for them. Cynical moi?.

I think I read in the Network Rail route strategy that Forest Hill is the 17th busiest on the London rail network, and yet Southern persists with providing substandard facilities. Lack of shelter, a semi-temporary shed of a station building, uneven platforms with deep puddles, and poor access. The whole operation provides an appalling impression to visitors. What less could they do for the ticket revenue?

I think its totally unacceptable that people with pushchairs, prams, luggage, etc have to rely on carrying their stuff over the (eyesore caged) bridge. I wonder how many compensation claims it would take for Southern to re-consider. 'Alight for the Horniman Museum and a broken ankle'...