From Barry Milton of the Sydenham Society:

Ambient - I wish you were correct but I am certain that the material in the car park is nothing to do with opening up the station.

Michael and I met with a representative of Southern at a Transport Liaison meeting at Lewisham Council on Tuesday. Michael (aided by Perry Vale councillor John Paschoud) put the case very forcefully for linking the car park with the station and John pointed out the Lewisham would be very supportive of such a scheme.

However, Southern are still currently aiming to shut off the PV gate and there are no plans whatsoever currently to link the platform with the car park.

Both Sydenham, Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park face the same fate of having access to their stations severely curtailed by the end of the year. The most effective way we can fight this is to e mail or write to our local politicians Len Duvall (our GLA representative) or Ken Livingstone. The FH and Sydenham Society fought a highly successful campaign against cuts in our existing services post 2010 thanks largely to the support of locals. We can do the same thing again on this issue.

Ken Livingstone and Len Duvall's details are:

The Public Liaison Unit (PLU) deals with all enquiries and correspondence on behalf of the Mayor and any enquiry requiring a response must be made in writing.

By email: mayor@london.gov.uk

Postal Address:

Ken Livingstone
Mayor of London
Greater London Authority
City Hall
The Queen's Walk
More London
London SE1 2AA

Telephone: 020 7983 4100

Len Duvall
GLA
City Hall
The Queen's Walk
London SE1 2AA
Telephone: 020 7983 4517
Email: len.duvall@london.gov.uk

I have to say it *****s me off when people are good enough to go to the likes of Southern to ask kindly for consideration for something and are rebuffed. Lets face it, the only reason they are doing this is to ensure that their revenue collection is up to scratch whilst spending the least amount of money to do so. I think mass protest is the way forward, I am sure Southern will get frustrated when people start pulling the emergency cord on their trains because they feel "ill".

If it stops fare evasion then plus points as well. I am sure many people travel without paying.
When did you last see intrain ticket inspectors.

That is extremely disappointing news.

There is a simple solution - put a bit of investment into the station by installing a manned office and barrier at the foot of the steps on Perry Vale. Will never happen of course, I mean that would actually involve improving the station's facilities!!

Unless they carried full riot equipment and tazers we never will. Can you imagine a "revenue inspector" on the 8:11am

Of course, the closures of these gates last year were just 'routine maintenance, weren't they?'

"I am sure many people travel without paying."

If there were that many, then building an Oyster gate on the Perry Vale side would pay for itself very quickly.

If there are only a few hundred fare dodgers a year, then why inconvenience at least 50% of passengers by making them hike up and down stairs - it must add 5 mins to the journey time.

FH is one of the busiest stations in London - that's a lot of inconvenience.

Perry Vale Gate - those who have been around a while will remember this gate used to close regularly after the early evening rush and weekends. Back then the rail operator (South Central back then?) quickly agreed to leave it open after a brief consultation.

This plan is rediculous; to expect everyone to go up and over the bridge is idiotic. I think a few letters / emails pointing out those most inconvenienced, i.e. old, mothers with prams, etc and common sense will prevail. In order to fare dodge, the dodgee will need to be travelling between two station without registering on the scanner. If they regsiter on the other side, they get charged the maximum single fare, everyone's a winner.

Time to complain (again, part LVI)

Will the station be manned until end of service once the gates are installed? Because if not, then there's no change to the vulnerability to dodging, it just inconveniences the ordinary passenger.

I suppose TfL must have some guidelines as to how to restrict access when Oyster barriers are installed, but this is just flat-out ridiculous.

This is a dificult problem . The railway company needs to get 100% of revenue and we need
the best possible access to the Station.
I have been advised TFL have committed to putting in a lift on the down side. Is this correct.

I believe that the problem here is Southern's cost-benefit analysis. I've seen arguments in my industry which justify automation in terms of labour savings.

At first glance it would seem much cheaper (and more sensible) to install Oyster Card readers (and gates) with access via the car park at Perry Vale instead of installing two lifts (at a cost of ?200,000). This would enable easy disabled access to the down Platform, encourage car users to park in the car park rather than on Devonshire Road and maximise revenue streams. However, if these gates have to be manned, then the labour cost needs to be added in; there is no consideration of cost/benefit to their customers

i understand where there are gates to check tickets etc there has to be a human being there as well.
Surely no point in having Oyster Reader unless they can be sure people are not going through free of charge.

I thjink that it is worth adding these contact details to nasaroc's reply

Southern Customer Services
PO BOX 277
Tonbridge TN9 2ZP

Telephone 08451 27 29 20
Fax 08451 27 29 30
Minicom/ textphone 08451 27 29 40
Email comments@southernrailway.com
Online Form: http://www.southernrailway.com/contact.php

well, I gave it a go! That was 12th March. No reply from Ken yet......

Hi, I wrote to Southern Railway about this and received a reply confirming that the gates will be shut. I pointed out the problems for people with pushchairs and disabilities and they said they are installing an intercom system to allow people easy access to platform 2 via the Perry Vale stairs. As I assume under the Disability Discrimination Act they will not be able to question people on the nature of their disability, I suggest we all use the intercom and say we have mobility problems and need access. Hopefully they will back down when it becomes too much for them to keep opening the gates!

They had plenty of staff at Catford station this week.

This plan is clearly unworkable. Once the gate is open there will be nothing to prevent others using it. Since anybody can press the button and say they have limited accessibility they would have to open the gate and everybody would follow them.

More likely, with lifts across the bridge for accessibility coming in the next couple of years, they will not provide buzzers on the Perry Vale exit. They have previously said it will be manned during peak times. But with trains every 4 minutes I cannot imagine they would man the exit in all weather.

Interestingly from 2010 the station staff will be TfL not Southern, so anything we are told by Southern has limited applicability. But this is something that the Forest Hill Society and local councillors are discussing with the rail authorities. We have a couple of interesting meetings coming up at the end of this month at the station and in Westminster.

I think that many railway stations only have access from one platform to reduce the number of staff required.

Dear all,
Below is the text of a reply I have had from Transport for London. Still subject to a final decision from Southern but things looking more hopeful for keeping the downside exit open. I have written to try and find out the outcome of the meeting on 16th (today).

Dear Tom

Thank you for your email addressed to the Mayor in regards to the installation of the Oyster machines and barriers at Forest Hill station. I have been asked to respond on the Mayor?s behalf and I am sorry for the delay in responding to you.

Transport for London (TfL) is funding gates to be installed on the stations south of New Cross Gate. These stations are to become part of London Overground in 2009.

The design for gates on the downside at Forest Hill was rejected by Southern's Safety Department as they felt that customers could be queuing to leave the platform and be placed in an unsafe position as they would be bunching around the gateline.

Southern therefore proposed to close the gate on the downside except for the period of the evening peak when it would be manned by Revenue Protection Staff.

Following a site visit on 4th April we are developing an alternative location for the downside gateline which will be positioned at the base of the stairs. Southern are currently working up this proposal and checking to see who the area of land belongs too with a view to moving it into the lease area of the station. This is to be followed up with Southern on Wednesday 16th April.

Given the additional building work that will be required there may need to be a two staged process for the station where the original gating solution is introduced followed by the building of the downside gateline at road level, before the completed gating solution is open.

I hope the information I have provided has been helpful. Please feel free to contact me should there be any future queries.

Kind regards

Kadine Brown
Transport for London
Central Customer Services

This sounds promising. we may get an entrance/exit that does not have steps.