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Burying the South Circular
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michael


Posts: 3,217
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #1
09-07-2013 08:21 PM

Another nice plan that will never happen...

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport...97628.html

Quote:
But the boldest plan is for the South Circular which the Mayorís experts want to send underground to give the area to a more residential feel.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #2
10-07-2013 08:06 AM

Highly unlikely, given all the natural streams and culverts we have under Forest Hill - unless the traffic is going to be carried along these tunnels on ferries, as if across the River Styx.

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daveherne


Posts: 212
Joined: Jul 2012
Post: #3
10-07-2013 08:28 AM

i had this idea for a space elevator once....

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #4
10-07-2013 11:14 AM

Perhaps the cars should be put on rails in these tunnels and linked together to minimise the risk of collisions.
To minimise pollution, the vehicle chain could be propelled by pneumatic pressure. They could convert the MOT centre on Waldram place into a pumping station.
Or instead use electricity or something.

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MightyMouse


Posts: 122
Joined: Apr 2012
Post: #5
10-07-2013 11:47 AM

Perryman, they tried something similar not far from here a while back...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Pal...ic_railway

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #6
10-07-2013 12:48 PM

I see from the paper that the idea of burying the South Circ is to allow the communities of Richmond, East Sheen and Wandsworth to reconnect.

I suspect they're not all that bovvered about the Eastern loop of the road. Plus ca change...

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #7
10-07-2013 05:25 PM

Quote:
Perryman, they tried something similar not far from here a while back...


The Crystal Palace atmospheric railway - I'd forgotten about that. A thing of wonder.

But I was thinking more that if they are going to the trouble to tunnel through to FH, they could just connect us to the underground.

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Applespider


Posts: 283
Joined: Feb 2006
Post: #8
10-07-2013 08:05 PM

I figured it was one of those proposals to get the rest of the document some attention in the press but which haven't got a hope of actually materialising.

I did read some of the documentation and apparently they will be doing feasibility studies in 2014 as to how this might happen.

Even if they did build something, I'm assuming it wouldn't necessarily follow the line of the current South Circ exactly - but just tend in the general direction. What I also don't understand with the proposal is that presumably it would have to surface regularly or have lots of slip roads and where on earth would they get the space to do those?

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #9
11-07-2013 07:14 AM

I think it would make more sense to build a proper underground railway in south-east London.

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rshdunlop


Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #10
11-07-2013 07:40 AM

The Underground is actually overground for the majority of its lines, though, isn't it, outside the central area? Our problem with the Underground has not been lack of tunnels but just not being connected up to the network. We are now.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #11
11-07-2013 08:59 AM

(Perryman, even more appropriately, you refer to a building that I am pretty sure was a direct replacement for one of the pumping stations for the pneumatic railway.)

Overground aside, our line has had a history of regression. There also used to be overhead electric supply, courtesy of the LBSCR.

As for the road tunnel, I see no technical reason why it couldn't be done. I think it is an excellent idea. Does smack of more posturing from the mayor though so I think it is prudent not to get hopes up.

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michael


Posts: 3,217
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #12
11-07-2013 10:39 AM

A single tunnel sounds like a really bad idea, but a series of underpasses to divert traffic from town centres would be helpful, but it unlikely to free up much space for development or pedestrianisation.

In our area I could imagine a tunnel starting in Dulwich and continuing to Stanstead Road, with another starting close to St Dunstans and continuing to Brownhill Road. Another short tunnel at St Mildred would past the railway more efficiently.

Further tunnels could assist traffic flow at Tulse Hill, A23 junction, the whole of Clapham with no exit until after Wandsworth (to allow for junction with the A3), then after a short tunnel under Putney I would be inclined to take a tunnel straight under Barnes to join with the M4.

In many ways this plan is an acceptance that the idea of radial rail routes for London was never as useful as was claimed. Linking east and west London by orbital rail has done nothing to reduce traffic on the South Circular as cars are still the easiest way to get to most areas of SW London from SE London (and the same is true in North London).

My view is that radial (or more importantly bisecting) railways are the future of London transportation. Thameslink, Crossrail, and Crossrail2 all conform to this vision, but the vision seems to stop here. What we need is the bakerloo line extension (via Forest Hill to Beckenham), Victoria line extension (via Streatham to Croydon), and a new branch of the Jubilee line running from North Greenwich down to Lewisham, Catford, and Bromley. all these should be underground and will be cheaper than £30bn spent putting roads into tunnels.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #13
12-07-2013 01:20 PM

Absolutely, if only one thing is done, a rail extension is better. However, *if* funding suddenly materialised for this, I think it would be folly to object on the grounds that the money would be better spent on something else. Budgets don't work like that.

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michael


Posts: 3,217
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #14
16-05-2014 03:41 PM

Not surprisingly the revised plans for how to waste £30bn now show an orbital route closer to the centre of London which barely crosses the river:
http://londonist.com/2014/05/plans-for-a...london.php

It doesn't even reach down to Clapham where the A3, A205, A24 all converge.

This removes all plans to remove traffic from the south circular and provides a tunnel along the southern bank of the Thames, one of the quietest routes above ground. Still it will help those developers in Battersea who are getting a new underground line for their few residents.

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Snazy


Posts: 1,504
Joined: Jan 2008
Post: #15
18-05-2014 09:20 AM

Im not sure I would describe the redevelopment of Battersea, Nine Elms Lane, and the building of the new US Embassy there a 'few' residents. I believe the number of new homes is something like 35,000. However im also sure that with a tube station placed further up Nine Elms spurring from Vauxhall, the traffic in the area will be kept minimal.

On the story of the burying the south circ. As much as it would be a lovely idea to make it all just magically disappear, I dont think there is a logical and practical solution for it. The problem with having it ducking and rising constantly is the huge area of land needed for the slopes and rises, just not practical.

There is no real solution to the increasingly busy roads of London. Public transport is an option but capacity is struggling as it is. Now take 250,000 car journeys off the roads daily too.. OUCH!

Will be interesting to see what the future brings. But in the meantime I shall potter about in my little 2 seater micro car with its little engine and do my bit to minimise impact.

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sydenhamcentral


Posts: 269
Joined: Mar 2008
Post: #16
18-05-2014 09:56 AM

A silly idea.

Spend it on extending the Bakerloo line instead and other public transport infrastructure.

Or try to make the UK a more balanced economy so London isn't the recipient of most of the funding.

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lacb


Posts: 623
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #17
18-05-2014 11:38 AM

This would be a silly thing to do in preference to public transport improvements but it would also be silly to maintain the current road scenario. Even with a Bakerloo, Overground extension and DLR, the South Circular will be over congested and a major source of pollution in local centres. It wasn't fit for purpose 30 years ago and isn't likely to become so in the next 30. One way this could work is with a toll road with low emission vehicles exempt.

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Perryman


Posts: 809
Joined: Dec 2006
Post: #18
18-05-2014 01:05 PM

I think this should be a long term project.
Just skim a few cms off the south circ every year...

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Erekose


Posts: 553
Joined: May 2010
Post: #19
18-05-2014 05:07 PM

Wasn't there a thread about this some time ago or is old age getting the better of me? This idea was mooted in the late 80's and definitly involved a tunnel under Dullwich to improve Maggies outlook (if indeed she ever lived in that house) but was I think a dual carriage way through Forest Hill.
I do recall attending protest meetings as it favoured only posh areas and basically drove new roads through the poorer ones.

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Sherwood


Posts: 1,355
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #20
19-05-2014 07:30 AM

maggie never lived in that house. Dennis used it when he played golf at the course next door!

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