Glad I only have to travel to Brixton and back for work these days, as I still haven't the faintest clue how to get around on trains with Oyster!:

Applespider,

If you have a Goldcard and are using it to get 1/3 off other fares at tickets booths; never say that you want a return from a named station, ask a return from a "zone boundary".

For example, when I get a Forest Hill-Croydon return with my Goldcard, I ask for "Croydon return from zone 3 boundaries" and not a "Croydon return". The former costs ?2.10p, the latter is ?2.70p. Also, it means that when I travel back from Croydon, I can jump on any train that crosses a zone 3 boundary. Catch a fast train into central London, if need be. This use to be ?1.70p before they abolished the cheap day return.

Also, there is no minimum fare or time constraints for getting a 1/3 off when using your Goldcard unlike the Network SE card.

Some of the perks I have discovered whilst owing a Goldcard.

That's why I'm sticking with paper tickets and not Oyster PAYG.

Anybody wanting full details about using Oyster PAYG on National Rail should see this document

Be careful and check your journey history online. I went up to the West End last Saturday travelling via Charing Cross main line. On return, despite touching in and the balance was shown on the gate's display, I have been charged a penalty fare as the gate did not register. I await a rely form Oyster about this.

Been reading the Virtual Norwood forum where numerous people have complained about being charged ?6 despite touching in and out at both stations.

Stations affected include Crystal Palace, West Norwood, Sydenham and FH.

The Virtual Norwood forum have their own public transport expert, Phil Solo, who is very knowledgeable and has written some excellent responses.

This mail is a good summary explaining the rationale behind the Southern Trains change of service impacting us.

http://www.virtualnorwood.com/forum/topi...__p__76305

This one is his investigation in the sheer complexity of using PAYG and mixing peak and off-peak journeys with TfL and National Rail

http://www.virtualnorwood.com/forum/topi...__p__75835

Boy, serious train spotter! Thank goodness, for that - who would explain it to us lesser mortals otherwise!!

Despite following the advice above, I am unable to check my journey history online, but it would appear that I was charged ?1.70 for Forest Hill-West Croydon, ?1.20 for each tram fare and ?1.00 for East Croydon-Forest Hill (Total ?5.10 instead of the expected ?5.80)

The ?5.10 is the Oyster cap for a 2-6 Off-Peak One Day Travelcard.

I was browsing on the tfl website because it seems to me you would need a month's training to understand the options and likely charges with Oyster. I noticed the following under Travelcards:

"Travelcards are valid for travel on:

Tube, DLR, London Overground services. Your Travelcard must be valid for all the zones you travel through
Bus services within Greater London area (regardless of the zone(s) your Travelcard covers)
Tram services where your Travelcard includes Zone 3, 4, 5 or 6
National Rail services in London (excluding Heathrow Connect services between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow, on Heathrow Express and on Southeastern high speed services between St Pancras International and Stratford International)
Scheduled Riverboat services at 1/3 off the normal fare. Just show your Travelcard (or Oyster card with Travelcard on it) at the time of travel "

Oddly this seems specific about where you can use a Travelcard for tube, buses and trams. As regards rail services it just says "in London". So if I buy a Zone 2 to 6 travelcard can I take the train to zone 1? Seems unlikely to me but that is how I read it.

This link on weekly, monthly and annual travelcards explains it better.

For the one day travelcard info page, looks like they cut the point "Your Travelcard must be valid for all the zones you travel through" and only appended it to the "Tube" bullet point, but not the "National Rail" bullet point.

Poor sub-editing, but I'm use to it as I read The Guardian.

A bit more than poor sub-editing I'd say. It is just plain inconsistent. Even on the link you kindly attached it first says the travelcard covers:

"Bus services within the entire Greater London area (regardless of the zone the Travelcard actually covers)

Trams where your Travelcard includes Zone 3, 4, 5 or 6 "

which I read to mean that I can get on a bus in Zone 1 even if my travelcard doesn't cover that zone, and I can get on a tram in any zone as long as my card covers at least one of zones 3, 4, 5 and 6

but then later it says

"Points to note:

Your Travelcard must be valid for all the zones you travel through ...."


These statements are simply not consistent with each other. If tfl can't state the rules correctly, what chance does the man on the Clapham omnibus have!!

On further thought, I think that the statement that your 'travel card must be valid on all the zones you travel through' is designed to cover the fact that a journey may start and end in say zone 4, but if it crosses zones 1,2 or 3 it must be valid for those also. Therefore a travelcard may be 'valid' for zone 1 buses without having to include zone 1....

Confused, you will be...

That is the correct. TfL gave up zoning bus journeys years ago (maybe because it was too complex to enforce). Someone I know has a zones 4-2 season ticket, gets off at Vauxhall and then catches a bus for work in central London (and for going out at weekends)

As for using the entire tram network across all zones - that's always been a nice bonus which I've taken advantage of.

Tube, DLR, London Overground and National Rail travel are restricted by the zones specified on the travelcard.

I agree with you that TfL have conflicting statements and raises more questions than it answers.

Thanks Muss but I already know to ask for boundary stations - still narked (and waiting for a TFL response) on why they can't cope with third off PAYG fares for Gold cards since it is now more expensive.

Buses stopped being zoned about 5 years ago. I now buy a 1-2 zone Travelcard and hop on a bus to Denmark Hill to get the train to Victoria.

I think Billham is right on the 'must be valid in all zones travelled through' point although how does that work PAYG wise if you want to get on the London Bridge to Victoria service from Forest Hill since presumably it would you to have a valid zone for East Croydon?

That train doesn't go through East Croydon.

If you're using a travelcard with Oyster, you'd need the Oyster Extension Permit for the Zone 3 part of the journey.

Incidentally the LB to Vic outer line is all within zones 1, 2 and 3. Crystal Palace is a Zone 3 and 4 station.

Oyster PAYG is now on sale at the FH station machines.

If the exit gates are open at HOP you can't touch out on Oyster PAYG (when trying you are told to "Seek assistance" from the closed ticket office) so you get charged the maximum fare.

Sigh...

I've had to touch out with the gates open at HOP a few times and generally haven't had a problem.

If you try to touch out and get a "seek assistance" or a red light on the card reader, try a second time - chances are it will be fine. If the barrier you're going through isn't happy, try the other one.