Lorship Lane benefits from Zone 2 travel, has no troublesome hills, is nearer to Central London and has mostly converted Victorian housing popular with young professionals with more disposable income. I would suggest that this is what makes the area different. Of course it doesnt help if Forest Hill people perfer to go to Lordhip Lane rather than support their own high steet!

I wouldn't say that from the business I do in SE22 (which is a lot, I can tell you), which is all in 5-bed, 3-bath, extended to-the-max terraced houses and above.

So, explain, these people with all their brand-new expensive German cars, which indicates a considerable disposable income, why are they in SE22 and not SE23 ?

Or do you juct think that inertia has kept them there for 20 years ?

The previous comments on this thread about East Dulwich being the new (affordable) Clapham are expressed by all my customers there.

I reiterate my first posting on this thread (in its entirety - despite the personal nonsense my comments have generated).

Peace !

Oh yeah, and BTW, IMHO JA Libretto & Daughters Butcher on Wood Vale is a sincerely much-better carver of meat than the highly-popular place at the FH end of Lordship Lane. Both of which I've tried a number of times.

IMHO c'est chacun (or chacune?) ? son go?t. In HOP I have peace, OSP, One Tree Hill a spit away and a 5 min walk to the station from where I can get into Town very easily.To me this is an ideal mix of buzz when you want it (WE shops, theatres, South Bank, films etc etc) but a quick resumption of peace as I turn into my road on returning home. I happen to love living in a hilly rather than flat area, am within walking distance of Libretto's, Horniman and SE22 and enjoy longer walks to Sopers fish shop in Nunhead, via Peckham Rye, or the Gowlett, amongst other places. If you are able (and willing) to get about on foot locally you can take advantage of all of this from SE23 but then it may depend which part you live in. I for one would not consider moving to SE22 from here. While I do agree much could be done to improve FH, what is the point of making another SE22? When areas become too pricey, too, the chains move in and the quirky shops we all like in newly gentrified areas get pushed out as rents rise. The important thing is to be active in your local community and work to improve it but also by to walk about and take time to appreciate the positive things that are already there.

Why all this fuss about which area has the most expensive cars. Surely whether the people are nice is a far more important factor. Having an expensive car does not make you a nice person

I live in SE23 and have in the past regularly gone out drinking in SE22 when I have wanted to stay local. But Im finding East Dulwich increasingly full of tossers occupying every boring identical wine bar/pub along Dulwich high street.

Im refering to loud mouth mockeys who take the p*** out of everyone else in the pub, abuse women and generally dont give a c**p about anyone else but themselves. Also try watching the football in E Dulwich - absolute nightmare. Only the EDT (on the roundabout) shows it and its totally rammed to one side of the pub with eveyone blocking your view of the one screen. I tried watching the Everton./ Arsenal game the weekend before last and left after 5 minutes - fed up with morons fighting over a tiny bit of corner space.

Its definitely more friendly in Forest Hill. Lordship lane is so over-rated and to compare it to Clapham is a joke.

I agree, I think Forest Hill is a lot friendler than East Dulwich. It would be nice to have one or two of their stores over on our side, but I don't wistfully watch the deparure of the 185 and think "ohhh, take me away".

There does seem to be a higher tosser count in ED. I had to travel to ED station a few months ago because of train issues and I don't think I have ever seen so many Ugg boots and Bugaboos in one place. Is it a council ordiance over there? Have a baby and someone delivers your regimental Ugg boots and Bugaboos? (I'm not joking, every single mother I saw--Forest Hill Mums have a bit more variety I think).

I have no problem with either area and enjoy walking down Lordship lane with the wife and kids every now and again. Some great shops like the Cheese Block.

That said, you get way more house/flat for your money in SE23, it's just an image thing.

SE22 has some great locals - many of them being out-patients at the nearby Maudsley (provider of the most extensive portfolio of mental health services in the United Kingdom).

There is/was the famous Lady in White who would walk Lordship Lane wearing white top to toe. And white accessories (hand bag etc). Her house is painted white and the windows have been white-washed. There is much said about her and others on the East Dulwich Forum. Such as the drunk window cleaner of Lordship Lane and the man that shouts out obscenities.

We in SE23 seem to be behind SE22 on this level.

There is a man who lives on my street (very firmly SE23) who shouts out obscenities - seems to be talking to an imaginary enemy- but it is actually quite frightening to encounter him! Don't think he's actually dangerous but his language is pretty violent.

I like eating out occasionally in ED and having a stroll along Lordship Lane (with my imported Bugaboo from FH) and into the wide variety of shops, however nothing would ever entice me to live there for many reasons including the fact it is too flat, has streets upon streets of similar architecture, and hence less interesting than FH. The restaurant food and house prices can be extortionate and some of the people just plain odious with their ostentatious wealth and rudeness. I wont single out a particular baby shop but would say that it is one of the most expensive and unfriendly shops in the area. (not JoJos).
Where I live now I have views, and neighbours who have been here for years , of all classes and professions similar to where I grew up, and most people seem to rub along pretty well with each other so overall its a lot more pleasant to come home to.

There is a jolly good shouter living on Siddons Road.
I think we in SE23 can hold our own.

Truly amazing how this thread has morphed from how to get decent shops in SE23, to nailbars, through neighbourly love (not) to schizophrenics in the area !

And all within context of the thread title.

It's the way conversations tend to go, fella

Is the woman in white still around? If I am thinking of the same woman, she wore wings and believed she was an angel. I haven't seen her for many years though - I work in Se5 and used to see her most days some years back

How times have changed since this thread started in 2008.

We've seen some closures, but Blockbuster, McDonalds, Aceri, Poundshop and numerous other sites have reopened with new offerings which seem to be doing well.

So what next? If the Butchers stay, we will have places to buy fresh veg, bread and meat. What else does Forest Hill need? What are we missing? Decent clothes (for men)? Toys? Shoes? A better mix of restaurants? What do you think would work here?

Since the closure of Provender we have been missing a health food shop. Sydenham has Well Being and East Dulwich has SMBS Foods, but I'm sure there is a gap in the market in Forest Hill.

It would be fabulous if there was a fishmonger, but I can't see it happening.

I agree that the loss of Povender was regrettable and, no doubt, another good quality health food shop will fill the gap in due course.

I hope you won't mind me jumping on this but, in mentioning that premises, I think it's also fair to add that the Brothers/Gym cafe, although totally different to Povender, has done a great job. They, with some other relatively new businesses like Bunka and Stag & Bow etc, deserve a lot of credit for sticking with it through some very difficult years in Forest Hill's recent transition and they are now rightfully established and continuing to provide a decent service to the area.

I agree that we badly need a decent health food/organic food store.
And yes a fishmonger would be heavenly!

Where is SE22?

Merry Christmas