I have bought alcohol at 9am before although wasn't intending to drink it until much later in the day - wouldn't want to make a separate shoppign expedition.

And the nail bar on London Road is marvellous. They do a great manicure/pedicure deal complete with little patterns on the toenails to brighten up the sandals. Toes feel quite naked if I haven't been in for a while.

Don't bother with betting shops - better prices and more convenient to bet online on the few occasions that I want to place a bet.

I am not sure our local nail bars are ready (or willing) to deal with my toe nails

How did this thread start with a Greengrocers and end up with toe nails ?????????????????

You obviously have not been to the specialist green grocer on the London road who does a good line in pickled toe nails.

Isn't the asnwer to this rather simple economically-speaking ?

Drive around SE22 and then SE23. Compare the number of high-value cars you see in each postcode - are there more Porsches BMWs, Audis & Mercs in SE22 or SE23 ?

If you want to attract high-net-worth people you have to give them something in return - nice shops, easy transport, good schools, good neighbours.

North-West of the railway track that splits Forect Hill between nice and not-so-nice (drill down on the Police buglary map if you want confirmation) is as close to Dulwich Boys College as anywhere in SE22. Alleyns's & James Allen's school are but a 5-minute drive away in a Chelsea tractor.

SE23 will no doubt benefit immensely from the estension of the tube to here. That will increase local consumer demand, and thus provide extra incentive for profit-motivated business to set up camp here. The quality of the bsuinesses will relate directly to the quality of the clientele, which relates to the quality of the people coming here. So, hurrah, to FH being connected to Canary Wharf. Admiitedly bankers do live up to their Cockney moniker, but hey, cash drives the economy.

Personally I was amazed that upon arriving here from Canary Wharf last tear I received such vehement opposition to me wanting to build an explampary ?1m+ house on Tewkesbury Avenue. You can see all the details in another thread, and the approved plans on Lewisham's website. Not only did all my new neighbours lose in speactular fashion in the High Court with their objections, but one of them even wrote in their objection that my girlfriend (and mother of my child) should move, rather than redevelop, when she's lived in the road for 10 years !

Perhaps part of the problem in Forest Hill is the attitude of a small, very vocal, yet-small-minded minority ?

I'd love to see SE23 get more like SE22. I have to admit though, that none of us will ever be SE21. ;-)

Ive just noticed something else:

se22.com doesn't have a lot to say.
se21.com isn't even running in any sense of the postocode.

I wonder how that reflects on the disgruntled-ness of the incumbents ? ;-)

Are you one of these high net worth people then? If so I am very grateful you have decided to move in with us lesser quality mortals and show us how life should be lived. From experience, you reap what you sow in life. If you want nice neighbours, its usually best to be nice yourself and make the first move. Once people decide you are a good egg, you will find that they are willing to help a friend in need. By the sounds of things you haven't got off to a good start here and you won't get much further if you equate 'quality' people with money and high value cars, or the Barclays Bankers of Canary Wharf, or continue to insult local people on this site.

We did have a wider variety of shops here around 20 years ago inc two delis however they moved to more lucrative locations. I'm not sure what should come first but think demand rather than supply will probably be the first in line. Also for the record, Forest Hill primary schools have a fantastic record of achievement in comparison with other parts of London and I understand that many are leaving private schools locally to come to these. Recession led no doubt but I am also aware that many children are leaving these schools not up the acceptable standard in many subjects.

I think a lot of us even those not directly involved are aware of the development proposals for Tewkesbury and the issues surrounding this.
I think we've also had to accept that the courts do not always operate on the basis of commonsense or indeed sound aesthetic judgement. Perhaps a more conciliatory approach to local neighbours may have given you a win- win situation- a home of your dreams and the nice neighbours which you seem to crave. As it stands, your victory appears to be a little hollow.

Gosh ! Doesn't that rather prove my point ?

Must be one of my ?15k-in-debt-in-court-fees neighbours.

ps I'm a domestic builder, not a banker.

pps I'm quite happy to engage in sensible conversation with anyone without a chip on their shoulder.

oooh, SE23 has a troll. How nice.

made me chuckle, that...

No, I'm not one of your neighbours, I didn't get involved in the appeal, nor am I in debt. And I don't wear chips.
May your ego move over so that you get into your bed at night.

There are many nice people in SE23 and I am sure also in SE22 but in both cases also many less desirable elements.

It always amazes me when people say they do not know their neighbours. I have always been on first name terms with not only next door but quite a few close neighbours.

Posh cars does not mean you have good neighbours, just people who want to spoil the environment. Cars are a liability in SE22 , 23 and think how much better with just good public transport.

I like this site but it always amazes me how different the majority of views on se23.com are to the views I meet daily in SE23. Seems the majority of posters are affluent people with a liberal bent. No problem here as long as they understand these are not always the views of the non posters.

I believe that East Dulwich developed as people couldn't afford Clapham or wanted more for their money.

The big problem with Forest Hill is the layout of Dartmouth Road - it doesn't lend itself to a proper High Street. HOP is different. I can see HOP shops developing into a more East dulwich type area.

doml,
Probably worth checking out what Perryman meant by a troll - 'someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community'. How right you are Perryman.

Personally I rather liked the design that you chose for your 'grand design'. As a detatched house it would have worked well and there are some excellent examples of modern design in SE23 with which it could have taken its rightful place. However, in my opinion the problem with your design is that your are replacing a semi-detatched house with no respect for the streetscape or your neighbours. I don't think that it helped that it was initially a conversion, but became a full scale demolition of a semi-detatched house, so that you could avoid paying VAT.

One thing you notice in East Dulwich is that their houses respect their neighbours (with the exception of two award winning battleships on the top of the hill). This actually helps to engender a sense of community rather than acting to divide neighbour from neighbour.

Knowing some of your neighbours I find that they are generally open-minded and good natured people. But I do not think they liked the damage you wish to do to the streetscape, to their views, or to there house prices. You may not agree with them, but they have as much right to object as the law allows. However, once a planning decision has been made by three councillors, there is little that objectors can do to overturn this, except in the most extreme circumstances.

Moving back to the topic in hand,
What is nice in SE23 is that we have some people who go to the good private schools in the area and some who go to the good state schools in the area. Unfortunately East Dulwich does not have such good state schools for secondary education, which is why many of them came to school in Forest Hill.

I do not think there is a big difference between the people who live in East Dulwich, Forest Hill, Honor Oak, or Perry Vale. There is a difference in our high streets but I think the East London Line, the reopening of the pool, and hopefully some improvements to car parking, will make a substantial difference to Forest Hill and we will see more shops opening in the town centre. One or two million pound houses will not really make the difference you seem to expect.

Forest Hill is better because I live there and the jerk chicken festival happens once a year.

East Dulwich is better for most things though, I go there all the time.

doml, do you know the owners of Earlsfield Estates?

I am surprised at a man of the cloth posting on a Sunday but guess you do not emanate from The Western Isles.

Isn't it Monday?

Not a man of the cloth, in a similar way that Baboonery is not a baboon.

Yes I should have gone to Specsavers

Is not there a law preventing non men of the cloth pretending so to be , but guess I am wrong again.

May your church be with you.

[/quote]If you want to attract high-net-worth people you have to give them something in return - nice shops, easy transport, good schools, good neighbours.[/quote]

I'd much rather attract decent, kind and caring people to the neighbourhood! People who think about their neighbour's feelings before - [/quote] or as well as - their own profit and desires

I have often wondered why Lordship Lane is so successful compared to Forest Hill or Honor Oak Park. I'm sure that massing and ease of parking have a large role to play, but had previously thought that income played a significant part too. That may be true, but according to the ONS Census Data 2001 the residents of East Dulwich had the highest average income, but spent it all on housing leaving much less for frivolities than the residents of Forest Hill and Perry Vale.

Maybe things have changed significantly in the last 8 years