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T and C

Posts: 22
Joined: Mar 2008
Post: #21
10-04-2008 04:40 PM

Im expecting the same to happen in HOP - it has the potential thats for sure, its green, clean and the number of independent shops seems to be growing although at a fairly average pace.

I would welcome:
a local Greengrocers, bookshop, arts & crafts shop, coffeee shop for kids & parents..

I do believe though that people looking to buy in East Dulwich will end up looking further afield as they slowely get priced out and with better links to be completed in 2010.. as Yazz would say "the only way is HOP!!!",, yeah I know a bit cheesy.. but true !

T and C Wink

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Posts: 6
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #22
10-04-2008 07:57 PM

..Forest Hill had a Wilkinsons store, along with the greengrocer as previously mentioned.

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Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #23
11-04-2008 10:26 AM

Elizabeth25 Wrote:
That is an interesting point (and one that has been written about without end of ancient threads. Why, when FH has better transport links, ED also has a very busy road running through it (as CP)--why do we get the bookies and Planet Pizzas? Is it really market demand?

(I don't want to dismiss the pockets of independance within FH--we all know where you are on Dartmouth Rd.)

No, it's a conspiracy.

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Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #24
11-04-2008 04:48 PM

I was speaking to one of the traders on Dartmouth Rd and he said that he had tried negotiating with the owner of the former bakery to reopen it, but that the owner was not interested. He also said that the owner of the former Barclay's bank was happy to keep that (and the flats above) empty as well.

Unfortunately, I believe that the recent legislation only applies to empty dwellings and is not something the Council could pursue with EDMOs.

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Joined: Feb 2007
Post: #25
11-04-2008 05:51 PM

There has been a change in the law regarding exemptions on business rates on empty properties which has just come into force which may make the keeping or empty retail units less attractive, though. Cross fingers.

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Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #26
11-04-2008 06:17 PM

I really think that there should be legislation for empty properties along the line of "use it or lose it". That might force some of the landlords to put their empty premises to good use.

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Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #27
11-04-2008 09:39 PM

The Council can take possession of empty business properties.

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Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #28
14-04-2008 02:06 PM

Really Sherwood - on what grounds?

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Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #29
14-04-2008 03:05 PM

The council can also use section 215 powers to bring derelict and run down commercial properties back into use.

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Posts: 48
Joined: Dec 2007
Post: #30
16-04-2008 12:26 AM

i remember the days when there were butchers and greengrocers (a choice of ) ... and the fishmongers .. and a woolworth (where mcdonalds was). and there was another supermarket (where the betting shop is next to the post office )

and the plug and socket .. electrical / hardware shop)

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Posts: 145
Joined: Oct 2006
Post: #31
16-04-2008 09:08 PM

annsquire66 Wrote:

NewForester Wrote:
I wish that Forest Hill had a decent Greengrocer.

I moved to Forest Hill originally in 1979.
There were two butchers, Wests (now William Hills) and Dewhurst (now The Big Breakfast). The fishmonger was where the Red Cross shop now stands although at one point I believe it was the original Sainsburys. Pizza Hut replaced a coffee bar that sold coke floats- in sundae glass on a plate of course! We also had a Tescos (when it was a failing brand) where Paddy Power is now. Don't remember a deli but there were also 3 or 4 greengrocers and 2 shoe shops.
Point is they have all sadly all fallen victim to the inability to compete with the big boys.
The use 'em or lose 'em slogan really does apply...

Coke floats. On plates. Brilliant. I'm off to make me one right now. Thanks for the memory annsquire66

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Posts: 73
Joined: May 2008
Post: #32
13-05-2008 08:14 AM

Just to go back to Edd's comment about East Dulwich having better clas of shop/restaurant because it is "populated by a more middle-class type". Does anyone remember the recent history of ED? Lordship Lane was always a good area for shops and restaurants - I've known it since the 70s and one of the nice things about it was the mix of useful shops and businesses with delis and greengrocers and good places to eat and drink. In the view of most people I know still living there, it has got much worse since house prices went up and it became fashionable - a lot of great shops have had to close cos opportunistic landlords put prices up. Sure, there are some good places around, a few older establishments surviving and some new places are interesting like the sweet shop, but there is now a surfeit of useless trendy maman-bebe-fluffy-bunny overpriced tat.

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Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #33
13-05-2008 03:43 PM

I lived in East Dulwich in the late 80s and 90s and my memory is quite different. Can't remember many restaurants at all on Lordship lane besides the Curry Cabin. There were local shops like butchers, bakers, etc, but thes were all killed off when the Sainsbury's opened on Dog kennel Hill. Later, when the demographics of the area changed, these closed shops started becoming restaurants etc.

The irony is that with the increased gentrification of SE22 businesses like butchers and fish mongers are returning. So there's hope still for their return in FH.

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Post: #34
13-05-2008 04:15 PM

I remember a time in the 1990s when there were few restaurants in Forest Hill and I went on a first date to Spaghetti Western in Lordship Lane. The restaurant closed many years ago but we tied the knot last year Smile

I think that the closure of greengrocers and other small shops is not confined to East Dulwich, but affects all other areas in every town in the country. However, East Dulwich does manage to support a diverse high street with a better range of shops than Forest Hill, but then so does Catford and that is not due to gentrification, so I don't believe you have to have grossly inflated house prices for a successful town centre.

Will I get into masses of trouble if I suggest that both Catford and East Dulwich have a larger daytime population than Forest Hill? Is what we need for more of us to work from home / become unemployed / give up working to look after the children? No doubt I am being terribly un-PC to even think such thoughts or to make such sweeping statements regarding local demographics, but I would not be stating it if I did not feel there was some truth to my suggestions.

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Post: #35
13-05-2008 04:27 PM

There is not really a recognisable centre in Forest Hill. So there is no real incentive to stay there after you have come out of the local shops.

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Post: #36
13-05-2008 05:45 PM

Not sure what you mean by a recognisable centre which would keep you in Forest Hill after you've been shopping, Sherwood.

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Post: #37
14-05-2008 06:27 AM

Really strange how memories differ - used to go over about once a week in early 90s to Lordship Lane to meet old friends and we'd go out to different places to eat, not great on names, but from memory but there was the Thistle (as it was then, now Chardon), the Turkish place, now called Hisar, that stayed open til 2 or 3, Spagetti Western, a Mexican place, three Indian Places at least, two Thai restaurants, one on Lordship Lane and one with floor cushions behind it, a Peking place further down, a pricy wine bar cum restaurant round behind Lordship Lane that is still going; two greasy spoons and a posher place with a garden for breakfast. I know that ain't Soho but it was a lot compared to Crofton Park. I used to shop there most weeks too, and I honestly don't think it changed that much after Sainsbury's. It has really only been in the last 3 years-ish that there have been big changes.

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Post: #38
14-05-2008 05:13 PM

michael Wrote:
Will I get into masses of trouble if I suggest that both Catford and East Dulwich have a larger daytime population than Forest Hill?

This is quite possible as the Borough of Lewisham has the highest percentage of population in London which works outside the borough. However, the ONS shows that in 2002 the average disposable income was 32% higher in East Dulwich that Forest Hill. I expect that is more significant. Wrote:
Over two-thirds of people work outside the borough, many of whom commute into central London. Deprivation continues to be a major factor, with household income being well below the London average.


Office of National Statistics Wrote:
Average Disposable Income (After Housing) 2002
London ?440
Sydenham ?390
Perry Vale ?400
Forest Hill ?400
Catford South ?450
East Dulwich ?530
Han Hill (Sloane Square) ?720

and at the lower extreme
Tower Hamlets ?280

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Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #39
16-07-2008 10:04 PM

[Moved from thread 'The Bird in Hand' -admin]

I always feared that Forest Hill would go the same way as the delightful 'East Dulwich' populated by folk who are unable to afford to live in Dulwich Village and decide to attempt to colonise the neighbouring areas in an effort to attach themselves to the lifestyle they crave. I have lived in Forest Hill for 35 years and yes there is the occassional altercation that takes place in the vicinity of the Bird in Hand, but I can assure you that I would rather drink in a pub that retains a modicum of atmosphere than one of the sterile pubs that seem to be appearing in the area.

And just think if the Bird in Hand changed, all the poor people would have to start frequenting the places that all the desenting voices on this forum enjoy visiting.

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Posts: 53
Joined: Apr 2008
Post: #40
17-07-2008 09:42 AM

Perish the thought that Forest Hill turn into the restaurant laden, facility rich, cafe culture of East Dulwich! I want to live in a place where drunks hang around on the street, there are more bookmakers than people and where the first shop you see when you get out of the station is a laundrette.....

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