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Expansion of Miriam Lodge Hostel for Homeless
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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #61
04-04-2014 10:28 AM

admin Wrote:
I assumed AnotherJohn was speaking hypothetically

It would be a pretty strange and inflammatory hypothetical. Can anotherjohn clarify if the incident did actually occur, was reported, or if it is just in his imagination?

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 347
Joined: May 2005
Post: #62
04-04-2014 08:31 PM

Why the hell would I make up a story like that you *****!!!

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 347
Joined: May 2005
Post: #63
04-04-2014 08:45 PM

And don't make me laugh about reporting this to the police - COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!!!!

I called the police about one of these guys lying totally out of his head and prone on the pavement peeing with his willy exposed at 10 in the morning. I waited around for over an hour with no sign of the police. Look, they don't have the resources to deal with this stuff and if this place wasn't there they wouldn't have to. As it is there - and the police can't deal with it - at least there should be better management and a complete block on any notion of expansion until it is completely under control.

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #64
04-04-2014 10:11 PM

It really is important to report these incidents of anti-social behaviour to the local police. Call them on 101 unless it is an emergency. Preferable take a photo/video of the incident so that they can identify the individual(s) involved even if they have left the area.

At present the police and owners of Miriam Lodge claim that there has been no anti-social behaviour (ASB) generated by residents. I have no evidence to the contrary, and nor will any planning committee who judge any planning application. If anybody see anti-social behaviour as described above please to report it, and if possible record it, then the police will have a better idea of who is responsible.

Of course the police have better things to do deal with incidents of public urination, but if there is a pattern of ASB then the police or hostels (if residents are involved) can take appropriate action.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #65
06-04-2014 05:00 PM

Michael as you know I really appreciate all you do for FH, but I think your #61 post was way below the belt. You know aswell as I do if it wasn't for Anotherjohn a lot of the good that has and is happening on Dartmouth Road would not be possible. He bends over backwards to do what he can to make FH better for locals, I won't bore everyone with a list as long as my arm!

Back to the main topic and photoghraphic evidence. I'm not sure if it is legal or not to take a picture of someones genitals in public, so for future reference can anyone confirm this either way.

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #66
06-04-2014 06:25 PM

I didn't believe for one moment that anotherjohn had made up the story, which is why I was challenging the assumption by admin that this was hypothetical.

I would not recommend taking photos of genitals, faces are far easier for the police to use for the purpose of identification. However, if you can photo somebody in the act of committing a crime or ASB in a public location then it should not be you who fears prosecution. Either way, such incidents when not hypothetical should be reported to the police.

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Iheartsydenham


Posts: 12
Joined: Mar 2014
Post: #67
06-04-2014 06:39 PM

Does anyone know whether a proper public consultation will now be organised seeing that last week's didn't include any representatives from the Lewisham planning office or local councillors?

Or will Miriam Lodge's owner go ahead a submit his vast expansion plans to the planning office regardless of all the reservations and abjections voiced by local residents at the meeting?

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 347
Joined: May 2005
Post: #68
06-04-2014 09:16 PM

I second Iheartsydenham's question about where our local Councillors and Town Planners stand on this matter.

Also, since I last posted, Michael & I have cleared the air and moving forwards I totally agree with his suggestion that we should call the police whenever we are confronted by any anti-social behaviour. Even though I have little confidence that the police will actually be able to do anything, after speaking at length with Michael about this, I realise that it is important for these incidents to at least be properly logged and processed on police records.

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OakR


Posts: 213
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #69
07-04-2014 05:54 PM

"I would not recommend taking photos of genitals, faces are far easier for the police to use for the purpose of identification" OhmySmile

Michael thank you for the straight-faced delivery of what must go down as the best lines in se23 history!

On a side note not sure why you were taken to task by AnotherJohn and P1971 as your original post was fairly clear to me. You should become a diplomat.

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #70
07-04-2014 09:43 PM

OakR maybe I'm not as clever as you but I do try my best to do what I can for the area, sorry if it's not enough for you ****, and questioning Anotherjohn well that say's it all for me because he does so much for the area and you would know him if you were too.

I do also know Michael and think he does an amazing job for FH for you information!

This post was last modified: 07-04-2014 09:53 PM by P1971.

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admin
Administrator

Posts: 395
Joined: Dec 2002
Post: #71
07-04-2014 09:54 PM

A reminder that name-calling and/or flaming is not welcome on the forum.

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OakR


Posts: 213
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #72
07-04-2014 10:36 PM

P1971 I did not mean to insult you or suggest I was more intelligent than you. I have in fact never insulted anyone on this forum. You may well (and most likely do) contribute more to the area than I do, that does not give you the right to call people names. Hope that made you fell better though. If you really think the way you respond to some people on this forum is positive for Dartmouth Road you may want to think again.

Anyway, I realise it is hard running a local shop as it is what my family did, so I will wish you luck with that and will leave this thread.

-Edit - Admin apologies on my behalf for the way this thread headed, as above I will stay out of it going forwards.

This post was last modified: 07-04-2014 10:40 PM by OakR.

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Iheartsydenham


Posts: 12
Joined: Mar 2014
Post: #73
08-04-2014 12:25 PM

Michael, do you have any updates following last week's consultation meeting regarding the next steps the owners of Miriam Lodge will take? Thank you

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Anotherjohn


Posts: 347
Joined: May 2005
Post: #74
08-04-2014 01:44 PM

OakR - please don't leave this thread.

It is one of the most important matters facing Forest Hill at the moment and I think it needs to be aired as fully and as fairly as possible with everyone contributing. I admit being totally out of order with my comment to Michael and I apologise to everyone for upsetting the apple cart a little here - I promise not to do it again. (By the way, I have also apologised to Michael in person).

Now back to Iheartsydenham's post today at 01:25 PM

Quote:
Michael, do you have any updates following last week's consultation meeting regarding the next steps the owners of Miriam Lodge will take?


Yes Michael, you ****, answer the question ****!
(sorry, warped sense of humour)

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #75
08-04-2014 01:54 PM

I can't speak for the owners of Miriam Lodge but I can talk in more general terms about the process and the undertakings they have made.

The owner made it clear that they would provide the plans and documentation to me to place on the Forest Hill Society web site, so that the current plans are accessible to all. If they have not done this by the end of the week then I have taken a number of photos of the plans that I took that I will make available for everybody to see. As well as providing plans they did agree to provide the daylight assessment for all rooms in the enlarged hostel. They were also encouraged to make available their corporate finances - which I would expect to include the documents lodged with Companies House, and a matter of public record (alternatively anybody is entitled to get a copy via https://www.duedil.com/company/05716723/...financials).

But the formal part of the application process is the same as for any other planning applications. The documents appear ready for submission to Lewisham planning department, at which point neighbours should be informed by letter and have a few weeks to respond. However, based on the feedback at the meeting last week, it is possible that the developer will choose to significantly reduce the size of the development, or make other changes that might make it less objectionable to neighbours.

As was pointed out at the meeting, many of the reasons for refusal for the previous application would still be valid for a hostel of the same size or large, as it proposed.

Quote:
The summary of the reasons for refusal decided by the council are:
(1) The proposed development, by reason of its height, bulk, scale, massing and design would result in the creation of an obtrusive and incompatible form of development, which would fail to respect the character and appearance of the subject site and its surroundings.

(2) The proposed siting, layout, scale, massing, design, appearance and materials all fail to follow the prevailing character, and the proposed
development will harm the significance of the adjacent Sydenham Park Conservation Area, and will not preserve or enhance the setting of the Conservation Area

(3) It is considered that the intensification of the hostel use on the application site will mitigate against the objective of delivering an inclusive, mixed and balanced community

(4) The proposed development would cause an unacceptable increase in overlooking and loss of privacy to the neighbouring residential properties and hostel residents (existing and future)



I don't think anybody present at Thursday's meeting (other than the developer) would regard the new application as having any material difference in relation to any of these reasons for refusal.

As with all planning applications the planning officers will consider the application in relation to Lewisham, London, and National planning policies. They may decide to make a decision under delegated powers, or if recommending approval, they would probably pass this to a planning committee made up of elected councillors for their decision, guided by the planning department and planning policy.

Should the decision go against the developer, they can appeal to the planning inspector and the appeal can be dealt with by exchange of letters between the applicant and the council, or (rarely) via a public hearing.

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #76
08-04-2014 01:59 PM

Another****john,
Give me a **** chance!
Laugh

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Iheartsydenham


Posts: 12
Joined: Mar 2014
Post: #77
08-04-2014 08:12 PM

Thank you for the update Michael, I appreciate this and am grateful for all your efforts in championing Forest Hill. I know how much we all care about our wonderful area and community and second anotherjohn's comments:

'It is one of the most important matters facing Forest Hill at the moment and I think it needs to be aired as fully and as fairly as possible with everyone contributing.'

I have a few more questions if anyone could help me answer these: was a public consultation carried out when Miriam Lodge was turned into a homeless hostel a few years ago? Were local residents consulted? If not why not? Does anyone know where I could find out more about this?

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P1971


Posts: 816
Joined: Feb 2009
Post: #78
08-04-2014 08:31 PM

OakR I certainly do not do any more than anyone else, but was just trying to point out a few truths, and trying to find the funny side to it as well. I'm genuinely sorry, I hope you can accept my apology. I'm really sorry if I upset you - Pauline

Guess I owe you a present now, pop in for a token on me. I am genuinely sorry, and am not shy to admit it.

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michael


Posts: 3,220
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #79
09-04-2014 07:02 AM

Iheartsydenham Wrote:
I have a few more questions if anyone could help me answer these: was a public consultation carried out when Miriam Lodge was turned into a homeless hostel a few years ago? Were local residents consulted? If not why not? Does anyone know where I could find out more about this?

I don't know for sure. The application for conversion of police section house to hostel was made in 2000. http://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-a...CAPR_29781
There are no details online, but it was a 'Certificate of Lawful Development' rather than a normal planning application. The idea being that a police section house would already have C2 use and therefore no change of use was required. As such it would have been difficult for the council to refuse permission. But perhaps neighbours of the site have a better recollection of the original application, which I have been told was to turn the site into a hostel for families of asylum seekers.

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Mr_Numbers


Posts: 511
Joined: May 2012
Post: #80
09-04-2014 01:25 PM

It's weird, but I've seen it time and time and time again on all sorts of discussion forums - work-related, community, special interest. Suddenly everyone is flying off the handle at each other, taking offence, giving offence, and of course it's never really intended - it's just that for some reason people interact with each other on discussion forums in a completely different way than if they were together in a pub or the street.

I don't think it's because people have 'user names' that mask their true identity because I've also seen this sort of stuff on staff forums when everyone was identified.

I do think it's because we all occasionally forget that, because we're not 'talking' in real time to each other, we forget that on the internet a posting is a succession of broadcasts and not a conversation.

Moral for everyone (my hot-tempered self included): Pause before hitting the 'Post' button.

Anyway - here's one of my favourite cartoons to lighten things up a little. http://xkcd.com/386/

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