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Improved parking for Dartmouth Road shops
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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #21
03-06-2008 01:28 PM

brian Wrote:
Where do you suggest the council release more road space for free parking apart from Waldenshaw Rd.
London Rd under TFL
Dartmouth Rd far to narrow for any cars to be parked in my opinion as major bus route.

Where else?

I may be being an optimist, but free parking in the woefully under-utilised Perry Vale car park might resolve a lot of station parking problems, leaving the rest of the roads for residents or shoppers.

Since the aim of resident's parking is to allow people to park outside their houses, maybe the far end of Waldenshaw Road (nearest Manor Mount) could be made available for short term parking instead of being resident only. I'll admit that people would have to walk an extra 100m or so to get to the shops which may be asking too much Wink I know that part of Devonshire Road was originally included in the CPZ, but was dropped following resident's objections.

Finally, could some parking be made available outside the Post Office / Paddy Power sites? I'm not sure how much is public / private space. This might alleviate the kerb parking at that end of Dartmouth Road.

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #22
03-06-2008 01:38 PM

How would it alleviate that? The creation of new bays 100 yards further up, and the attendant publicity saying you weren't allowed to park on the pavement lower down Dartmouth Road didn't. How would sticking a few cars on the pavement by the post office help?

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #23
03-06-2008 02:17 PM

I am very much against parking on the pavements.
As for Perry Vale Car Park , surely this is only used by non local people driving in and using station ( could be wrong ). No problem charging outsiders.
Most people want to park outside shops. Walking from Perry Vale Car Park would be as far as some would have driven to the shops. Again cannot understand why people do not travel on foot to local shops. There should of course be spaces for disabled etc

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steveb


Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #24
03-06-2008 03:03 PM

As I said before on this thread, allowing a free parking period of 1 or 2 hours in the Perry Vale car park would benefit those wanting to use local facilities while still requiring those who want to park for the railway station to pay.

You can see the effect of free parking or charging by comparing our two local Sainsburys. The one at Bell green with free parking is always busy, while the one on London Road is comparatively quiet.

I've no doubt that the restrictive parking deters people from shopping locally.

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michael


Posts: 3,221
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #25
03-06-2008 03:04 PM

It is amazing that there is a huge drive to reduce the number of plastic bags that we are all using including councils producing free cloth bags and the government considering legislation, when there is no penalty for people driving miles to to there shopping. Hardly anybody walks to Sainsburys Bell Green and there is no charge for parking - what affect does this have on the environment and the shops in our town centre?

My recommendation - charge 50p for anybody parking at Bell Green for any length of time, use the revenues to improve the local town centres and introduce longer periods of free parking at Sainburys in Forest Hill and Perry Vale car park. People will vote with their feet and shop with them too!

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dom


Posts: 2
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #26
04-06-2008 02:50 AM

I just wanted to share my observations and frustrations in this forum. I did not expect entering a discussion on the subject... but that's what a forum is all about, isn't it.

8 years ago parking was easy all around the village and as I was a local using the local shops, several of them have shared with me their worries after the parking restrictions had been enforced.

I have been to a meeting held by the council 2 years ago where 300 residents attended. It was regarding mainly security/criminality in the area. Someone in the audience raised the issue of the parking restrictions and how it was affecting local businesses. 3/4 of the audience immediately came alive and wanted to say their bit. I especially remember one guy, shop owner since 20 years on Sydenham road (or Kirkdale, I do not remember exactly) in Sydenham who took the mic and said that his business had begun to shrink after the new restrictions: potential clients as well as old clients could not park anymore near his shop as they used to and were now going somewhere else. Several other shop owners confirmed similar problem.

The point is not whether or not people need to exercise or to loose weight by being forced to park their car 300 yards from their house or flat.

The point is not whether one like motorists or dislike them.

The point is that 'if it's not broken, don't fix it!'.

There was no need for such wild spread restrictions, either than some (or a few) interested parties filling up their wallets. (It may be that we are simply dealing with vested interest, as simple as that, what do you think?)

The point is that the result has been catastrophic for local shops whether you like it or not. In 2006 (or was it 2005?) 17 shops closed down on Dartmouth Road (that?s during a 12 months period).

The point is that in the project of Sainsbury refurbishment, an access to their parking - at the bottom of the shopping centre and directly ON the South Circular (the entry) - was planned and local restaurants and shops were expecting it to happen as promised and approved by the council. This tells you how much there was a strong concern for the parking situation created in the area: anyone could of course have access to the project and see the plans.

Then, this part of the planning was NOT executed and they planted a BUS stop right on the way of any possible entry to the parking instead... there was loads of room to place this bus stop somewhere else? if only 10 meters on the right or left.
It apparently has been the only part of the planning which has not been executed.
WHY?
It is then that the French owner of the Latitude who had hanged out until then in the hope that they would at last have parking for customers decided to leave.

Perry Vale? Well the parking is not too bad in this area is it?

As for East Dulwich, parking is MUCH easier than in Forest Hill (interesting actually... why?). I often shop there and usually park reasonably close to or close to where I want to go - and yes, business is flourishing and prospering there.

This is the 21st Century; life is fast and active and people want things now. Life is expensive today and they have to earn and earn fast. They have no time to waste. For the exercise they go play football or go golfing or fishing during the week ends.

I can't believe when I read things like 'they can walk like I do and take their time to go do their shopping'.

This is puerile and apathetic and quite egoistic an attitude. The shops need their business. They are the people who spend. And they do not feel like taking their time. They are in a hurry and instead of going to the local newsagent, stopping for a quick snack in one of the local joints, buying a pair of trousers or skirt in a local shop... well they are better go to down Lordship Lane where they can park, walk 20 steps, buy their stuff and go.... or for many others go to Saver Centre where they can buy everything in one go and go to the cafe.

There is absolutely no need of red lines on London Road, Baboonery. The 'loading only' parking near Sainsbury is a complete joke. Why 'loading only?' Can you really find a reason why????

There are several restaurants JUST THERE! To me it says ' don't go and eat there or we'll tow away your car!'. Which is what they do ? thank you Transport for London!

There would be plenty of space to park on Dartmouth road if they would simply draw the white lines to this effect or erase their yellow lines. Instead they spent a small fortune putting ridiculous bumpers which are of NO use at all, and narrowing the street here and there - for what??? As far as I can observe it is non-sense and that it has been approved I consider sort of doggy?

I have written to the person who took this decision and asked them why they did not use that money to build a safe exit for the children coming out and getting in the school down the road. I do not want to speak about the idiotic reply that I received to justify this waste of our money.

They even went as far as implementing parking restrictions in the artist muse Havelock Walk which has been p**sing them off since. It's a cul de sac! The only people that are penalised by this decision are the artists themselves. There was no problem of parking there before, absolutely none.

You say shop owners use this to justify their failure? Certainly they do. So did the three managements who have been trying to revive what was the Latitude then the Aceri. Each became good friends of mine and I know the ins and outs of their troubles. And so did Mc Donald themselves. They simply gave up.

My point is this: Forest Hill will not flourish and prosper unless commerce can prosper and lovely up market shops and restaurant settle here. (Not betting shops and WeatherSpoons!) And this will not happen for the time parking restrictions of such magnitude are enforced. Further, I can't imagine this not being part of an agenda and would love to know which one.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #27
04-06-2008 10:14 AM

Interesting and I agree with some of your points. Very true I am not working so shopping by foot relaxing and ideal. But up to end of last year I was leaving home at 5.45 am and getting home about 6.30pm , looking after elderly relative and still never used car to shop in SE 23.
Call me excentric but I honestly believe by time you have gotten in traffic jam and then parked quicker to walk for most people in SE 23.

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steveb


Posts: 113
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #28
04-06-2008 10:38 AM

The point about it being as quick to walk and shop local is what I've found to be the case. However, I think the main reason people want to use cars is for the perceived convenience of carrying a large single weekly shop, especially for those with families.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #29
04-06-2008 11:49 AM

Point taken but surely that would only apply to Sainsbury, London Rd , none of the other retail outlets could supply weekly shop. Mostly used for 1 or 2 items

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Baboonery


Posts: 581
Joined: Sep 2007
Post: #30
04-06-2008 11:56 AM

What a load of arrogant tommy-rot. Have you been in a queue on London Road recently? There's EVERY need for red lines there. You've got to maintain some semblance of traffic flow. But of course, traffic flow doesn't matter to you when you want to park, does it? I MUST PARK HERE!!! NOWHERE ELSE WILL DO!!!

And the idea that there is plenty of space to park on Dartmouth Road is so ridiculous that it can only be classed as a lie. The bays are fine. Lower down the road it's just too narrow, unless you park on the pavement, which lots of people do, but let's not worry about that, MUST PARK HERE!!! How many of those shops do you think would have been saved by 'Park anywhere you like' policies? All 17? Can you ask one of the fairies for their magic wand as a souvenir? Still, the road being blocked would have avoided the need for speed bumps.

The red loading bay by Sainsbury's. Three spaces, is it? And nearly always occupied. Wow, that would be SO helpful. Three on the other side, also always occupied, as is half the bus stop and the red lines afterwards. And you have to drive round the back to the car park? Diddums, there.

Typical motorist. Me me me me me. Car use has outgrown sutainable levels, and motorists just can't get their heads round the fact that it's not going to be as easy as it used to be. You can't always get what you want.

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NewForester


Posts: 377
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #31
04-06-2008 12:47 PM

Unfortunately we live in an age where people often do not engage their brains when leaving the house and drive ridiculously short distances (as discussed elsewhere).

People complain about parking charges, but nobody figures out how much it costs them to drive the extra distance to Bell Green. If we reckon 1.7 miles @ 30 mpg, with petrol costing ?1.20/litre then that is 62p each way (not allowing for running costs), ?1.24 total. So ?1 for 2 hours parking is actually a bargain, but try to convince a car owner of that Smile Until we can change that mindset, we need to cater for the car owner if we are to encourage local shoppers, while at the same time making sure that available parking is not monopolised by the commuter.

My earlier suggestion was for four or five spaces outside the post office to remove the 'need' for people to park on the pavement at that end of Dartmouth Rd where the main offenders seem to be delivery drivers. We have established that car drivers are lazy, so we need to provide parking close to their destination. Maybe we should simply provide drive through shopping Wink

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thenutfield


Posts: 235
Joined: Nov 2007
Post: #32
04-06-2008 12:52 PM

I might be wrong, but I am sure shops existed before the car was invented, didn't they? Smile
I wonder how people coped

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #33
04-06-2008 01:11 PM

You only have to look at the history books to see there were a lot more shops then

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blushingsnail


Posts: 364
Joined: Dec 2005
Post: #34
04-06-2008 01:44 PM

michael Wrote:
My recommendation - charge 50p for anybody parking at Bell Green for any length of time, use the revenues to improve the local town centres and introduce longer periods of free parking at Sainburys in Forest Hill and Perry Vale car park. People will vote with their feet and shop with them too!


But who owns the car parks? I assume Bell Green is Sainsbury's, so no one can force them to charge for parking and then allocate the profits to FH town centre. And isn't the car park behind FH Sainsbury's owned by the council? I understood that Sainsbury's wanted free parking at FH but the council decided to charge.

Anyway, you can?t compare Sainsbury?s Bell Green and Sainsbury?s London Road. Bell Green is far larger and stocks a heck of a lot more than FH branch, so it?s understandable that people would prefer Bell Green. Although it wasn?t always so: I remember when Savacentre first opened and it was inferior to FH Sainsbury?s, despite being much bigger. Unfortunately since its refurbishment the FH branch has gone down the toilet. I had such a bad experience in there again last week that I?ve vowed never to set foot in the place (again - I said that a couple of years ago and my resolve only lasted a few months).

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shzl400


Posts: 729
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #35
04-06-2008 01:45 PM

There used to be a huge car park next to the Dartmouth Arms, which is now barriered off. I believe patrons can get tokens to park there, but is it open to the public and, if so, how much?

Yes, thenutfield, but the grocer, butcher and greengrocer all had delivery boys and/or wives and mothers did not go out to work.

I used to walk and shop when I was on maternity leave and had a useful net under the buggy to load up with all the shopping. And yes, then, as I had little else to do all day, I could take the leisure to stroll around the other shops in FH, maybe have a coffee with other mums at the then extant Blue Mountain (that shows how long ago that was!). And then I could do the same the next day, as well...

I only got a car when son no. 1 was six months old. Now I work full time again and drive to Bell Green to get the week's shopping for a family of four in one hit on the weekend. As it usually takes over ? hour to do this, especially with the offspring in tow, I would only come to FH Sainsbury's on a Sunday, when parking is free, as I don't see why I should pay extra for less choice when the alternative is just as convenient.

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brian


Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #36
04-06-2008 02:27 PM

Yes free parking at the retail oasis at Bell Green is a problem for then whole area. Surely when the council negotiated the extension of the site they should have insisted a charge for parking.
However seems to me that the people who do their weekly shop at Bell Green is not the same market as those who pop into the local niche shops.

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