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I dispair for London
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Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #1
11-05-2012 03:07 PM

As you know, I stand up for myself, my neighbours and for people in general.

Today though I am begining to wonder why I do it.

I came out of FH train station this afternoon to see someone parked in the station throw a bag of rubbish out of their car onto the car park tarmac. I picked it up as I walked past and handed it to her saying "I think you dropped this"

Bad mistake.

Apparently I am now going to get "done" as she is well fixed up and I was "dissing her".

All over a bag of litter.

I asked her why she couldnt throw it in the bin not more than 5 yeards away.

Her response was unprintable.

Well police informed and they have her registration number.

We shall see.

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Posts: 1,111
Joined: Jun 2008
Post: #2
11-05-2012 03:27 PM

Good for you, and don't despair. There have always been people like this, but it has been a lack of people like you politely standing up to them that has made this behaviour more prevalent.

I've been on the receiving end of similar invective - it's all bluster, makes them feel big. She might think twice about throwing her rubbish out of the car the next time, though.

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Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #3
11-05-2012 03:28 PM

Good luck, I was recently punched in the face by a motorist because I had the nerve to react to their dangerous driving by briefly exclaiming my displeasure. CCTV or a witness needed or it'll go nowhere.

I am now one of those 'annoying' cyclists (my terminology) who will be riding with a helmet camera (that incident was the third in less than 4 weeks that saw me on the plastic surgeon's table after a motorbike sideswiped me, then a pedestrian stepped into my front wheel (on the road cyclist haters) and put me onto the tarmac at 20mph 2 weeks later, with the punch incident two weeks after that). Complete lack of basic respect and accountability shown in all three cases.

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Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #4
11-05-2012 03:42 PM

IWAF, sorry to hear about the punch. You will be suprised what can happen with no CCTV or witnesses. When I was hit by a motorist in 2008 whilst on my motorbike I had neither but still won my court case for liability.

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Posts: 379
Joined: Feb 2008
Post: #5
11-05-2012 04:17 PM

What a tosser!
They were encouraging people to challenge such antisocial behaviour on the radio the other day. (See BBC news article or listen again to the last 5 minutes of Weds/Thurs editions)

You're now officially a Litter Hero :D

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Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #6
11-05-2012 04:21 PM

What upset me the most is that she called me a sad, fat old manSad

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Posts: 148
Joined: Jul 2010
Post: #7
11-05-2012 05:09 PM

Not sad. Not fat. Not old. Not to us.

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Posts: 531
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #8
11-05-2012 05:54 PM

Did you call radio 4?! They are just doing a piece on people's reactions to litter 'tossers' - their word admin.

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Posts: 163
Joined: Jul 2003
Post: #9
11-05-2012 06:14 PM

Its not just in London I'm afraid. We were sitting inside a drive in McDonalds (I Know!!) here in Norwich overlooking the car park and observed a young woman get out of her car and put her pile of rubbish on the grass verge not 3 feet away from one of the bins provided. Its not as if she'd thrown it out of the window but she'd actually got out and walked over to the grass.

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Cellar Door

Posts: 356
Joined: Oct 2007
Post: #10
11-05-2012 06:47 PM

Because of your exceptional actions, Londondrz, I see optimism for London. I think it is glorious that you caught this woman, then stood up to her even when she is hurling out abuse not long after the bag of rubbish.

I confess that Iíve never had the guts to do what you did. I might tut and shake my head but thatís about it.

You obviously got right under her skin judging by her angry retort. Because she knows she has done the wrong thing then I imagine youíll not only just be under her skin but hovering in her mind the next time. And I hope that she may just be a little bit more reluctant to do it again. Thatís a potential result that you can be proud of.

People like yourself, Londondrz, inspire me to start to stand up to these litter louts.

Well done!

This post was last modified: 11-05-2012 06:48 PM by Cellar Door.

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Posts: 205
Joined: Mar 2011
Post: #11
11-05-2012 07:10 PM

Do not despair, Londondrz. There are plenty of good people like you!

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Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #12
11-05-2012 07:22 PM

Yes but to be honest, I wouldnt approach people like this. This sort of reaction is typical and can lead to a dangerous situation. Its happened on many notable occasions as reported in the press. You dont want to risk your life over a bag of litter.

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Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #13
12-05-2012 09:12 AM

Thank you for your comments.

Roz, I dont tend to do this often but this took the biscuit. At which stage do we stop intervening? Next she and her mates are driving down the road and throw their half finished McDonalds shake out the window at the lady with the kids in the pram for a laugh. That lady could be you Roz.

I dont advocate taking on a mad knifeman but pointing out to someone who is littering (in front of a large amount of witnesses) that it's not on might get the to listen.

As for yesterdays lady, we shall see. The police are due to call soon and they dissaprove of threats to kill.

On the McDonalds subject, why is there so much McDonalds litter in gutters around Forest Hill, we dont even have McDonalds. Do todays yoof see Forest Hill as a good place to come to and enjoy their takeaway?

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Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #14
12-05-2012 12:36 PM

Top marks to the police, they called today and gave me a crime reference number and are treating as a public order offence. Just been to FH station and put in a request for the CCTV. Station staff were very helpful but I was amazed when they told me that people threaten to kill them all the timeSad

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Posts: 184
Joined: Oct 2011
Post: #15
12-05-2012 01:18 PM

Let's hope justice is served upon this low life - it's a shame good people like yourself are harassed by scum like this woman (won't use the word lady as she is obviously not one) who seem to think it is their God given right to behave in whatever manner they see fit regardless of how their actions affect the world around them.

Hopefully we will all gain something from this and be more willing to stand up to these kind of people Thumbsup

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Posts: 2,002
Joined: Apr 2005
Post: #16
12-05-2012 02:47 PM

Well said Milliemop.

Will you stand as MP in next election. You have my vote.

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Honor Oak Bloke

Posts: 30
Joined: Mar 2010
Post: #17
12-05-2012 03:34 PM

Londondrz, I would like to add my voice to those praising your actions.

As someone who sits somewhere between the tut tut brigade or always making a stand I think its people like you that make a massive difference. When lots of people decide to do nothing it can be daunting standing up against what we all know is wrong but I find what you have said very inspirational. Littering is (99.99% of the time) an avoidable and lazy choice rather than being due to a lack of suitable disposal facilities and it shouldn't ever be seen as being socially acceptable if people actually take pride in where they live.

I could fill way more than the character allowance on this forum ranting on smokers discarding their butts which seems to not be considered litter, post smoking ban.


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Posts: 269
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Post: #18
12-05-2012 11:02 PM

I think what you did was great Londondrz, but not sure I'd feel able to do the same on my own.

In saying that I have stepped in to help people in the past when I thought they were being threatened. I also helped a girl who was being harrassed at a cashpoint, but I had my partner with me.

Losers like this need to be challenged about their littering I agree, but as Roz says, I wouldn't put myself in danger over it.

It worries me if it's becoming the official line that people should step in over littering. The thing is, you never know when someone could pull a knife on you, but I do appreciate people like you out there who are willing to stand up for others.

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Posts: 1,538
Joined: Apr 2006
Post: #19
13-05-2012 09:19 AM

If we do not stand up for ourselves today who will be left to stand up for us tomorrow?

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Posts: 1,796
Joined: Mar 2005
Post: #20
13-05-2012 10:02 AM

It's a good point, and its an admirable quality, but people who do habitually throw litter around and demonstrate other antisocial behaviour tend to be a little troubled, psychotic ,densitized to the needs of others and the planet and lack the caring gene so I think its a good reason to be wary of them. I think its also a mistake to think you are going to educate them into better habits unless they are young children who dont know any better and could benefit from a bit of advice. They know too well they are doing wrong but dont give a toss, something else they want you to know. People also have mobile devices so they can photograph you , record you, and also call their mates to come and get you quite quickly so the speed of technological development means that things can turn nasty very quickly.

The other side to that coin is that you can also use that technology to do the naming and shaming without having to put your life on the line. Think of those people caught on youtube showing racist and abusive behaviour. They were recorded and caught that way. There was another man on youtube caught beating up his dog and the same happened when it was filmed by the next door neighbour and got a record number of viewings and appeared on national TV. Perhaps the way is to keep quiet, keep yourself out of danger, but keep a record, and if possible, pursue them by different means rather than direct confrontation.

I used to feel the same as you and did the same as you. Once I said something to a woman at a bus stop for being obstructive to others trying to get past her - she called her bloke who then turned up in his car and threatened me. In another incident my partner scowled at a speeding driver when he was trying to cross the road; the driver reversed back about 40m, pulled up and tried to attack him. It only stopped when I pretended I was calling the police on what was a hairbrush but he could have beaten him to a pulp. Another incident was when I tackled a group of teenagers from preventing my children using the slide in the Horniman Triangle- they were just sitting all over it blocking off my childs access. They turned nasty and one of them went across the road where they lived to get their parents. I called the police who turned up too late after we had left in a lot of fear I had to say as it was difficult being in that situation with young children. Finally a colleague who was out walking in a country lane shouted at a speeding driver who then drove back and ran him over. He spent weeks in intensive care. When he came out he was too emotionally fragile so had to take early medical retirement.
When I had my old car stolen twice in as many months, and apparently by the same people on the Honor Oak Estate who seemingly used it as a taxi when they were stuck, the police said I had the right to pursue costs but they were clear that I should not as the people in question were known for violent retribution and I shouldnt do so. At the time I was so outraged that I was keen to pursue 'justice' but it would have come at a price which I decided I wasnt going to pay.

There also have been 'famous' incidents over the years; the one in Holloway Road where a bloke was killed for telling someone off for throwing chips at his girlfriend on a bus,
the have a go hero in Swiss Cottage who tackled some bank robbers, the one where a man ran out to stop people taking his car and they ran him over and killed him. In the last few days someone was nearly killed for asking if a crying baby was ok. In Manor Mount a man was beaten up for remonstrating against drivers driving down the wrong way.

Taking action against misdemeanours is 'just' but can lead to unimaginable consequences. Having a hero inscription on your tombstone isn't a price worth paying.

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